Ryanair bans passengers who got Covid Chargeback refunds

peldpeld

So this exact scenario has happened to me and people need to know some more detail.....

Last year we were due to fly to France with Ryanair, we couldnt go due to the government advice but the flight still flew.

We went to make a claim on our travel insurance (for accommodation and flights), however the insurance company explicitly stated we must speak to our credit company to ask for a charge back before we make an insurance claim. 

We spoke to Amex, and like the story, they put the case to Ryanair and made the S75 chargeback.

Fast forward until a few months ago, I buy flights to Portugal, then realise I cant access my booking. After contacting customer service, then get put through to real person, they explain why my account is blacklisted. I got my flights to Portugal refunded. 

However a few weeks ago, we booked flights to Ibiza for next week (Oct half term in Scotland), however it was all booked through my wifes account. She goes to check in, and the booking is blocked again for the above reasons. The wife phoned again to explain and spoek to an obnoxious women who just said was "terms and conditions, terms and conditions, terms and conditions", no reasoning or discussion. As we are keen to travel, and are short on time, we have had to pay the outstanding £400 to "clear" our names. 

We dont have the luxury of airline choices in Edinburgh and are quite reliant on Ryanair, Jet2 and Easyjet to get to tourist destinations, so we had little choice.

Its highly frustrating as if AMEX had said no, then we could have claimed off our insurance and this wouldnt have been an issue. AMEX would claim they have served there clients by getting the money back. Now we are the ones who have been screwed and out of pocket for a dispute that should be between AMEX and Ryanair.

Upsidedownandaround

peldpeld said:

So this exact scenario has happened to me and people need to know some more detail.....

Last year we were due to fly to France with Ryanair, we couldnt go due to the government advice but the flight still flew.

We went to make a claim on our travel insurance (for accommodation and flights), however the insurance company explicitly stated we must speak to our credit company to ask for a charge back before we make an insurance claim. 

We spoke to Amex, and like the story, they put the case to Ryanair and made the S75 chargeback.

Fast forward until a few months ago, I buy flights to Portugal, then realise I cant access my booking. After contacting customer service, then get put through to real person, they explain why my account is blacklisted. I got my flights to Portugal refunded. 

However a few weeks ago, we booked flights to Ibiza for next week (Oct half term in Scotland), however it was all booked through my wifes account. She goes to check in, and the booking is blocked again for the above reasons. The wife phoned again to explain and spoek to an obnoxious women who just said was "terms and conditions, terms and conditions, terms and conditions", no reasoning or discussion. As we are keen to travel, and are short on time, we have had to pay the outstanding £400 to "clear" our names. 

We dont have the luxury of airline choices in Edinburgh and are quite reliant on Ryanair, Jet2 and Easyjet to get to tourist destinations, so we had little choice.

Its highly frustrating as if AMEX had said no, then we could have claimed off our insurance and this wouldnt have been an issue. AMEX would claim they have served there clients by getting the money back. Now we are the ones who have been screwed and out of pocket for a dispute that should be between AMEX and Ryanair.

If you knew you were black listed why persist with continuing to make bookings with them knowing they expected you to pay the money they believe you owed back to them?

It sounds like you screwed yourself by trying to find ways to get around you being blacklisted. Surely when they told you you were blacklisted and they expected you to pay back money they felt you owed them was the point to choose another airline.

jimbo6977

Ryanair's T&C's make it clear they will not allow debtors to board.

They also make it clear they do not deal with re-sellers, travel agents, screen scrapers etc, so these companies should not be selling Ryanair flights. 

Foreign office advice against travel is not a ban on operating to a destination. RYR do not control the police, so if police are turning people away from airports this is outside the airline's control. 

In the past luggage was always included in the price of a flight ticket due to IATA regulations stemming from international treaties governing air transport but these rules have been gradually loosened since the mid 70's and Ryanair is not in any case an IATA member. Various legal cases have been brought in different jurisdictions regarding Ryanair's luggage fees and some have been successful, but never at a court level where they would form precedent. 
https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/11/21/inenglish/1574341370_785223.html

k3lvc

peldpeld said:

Its highly frustrating as if AMEX had said no, then we could have claimed off our insurance and this wouldnt have been an issue. AMEX would claim they have served there clients by getting the money back. Now we are the ones who have been screwed and out of pocket for a dispute that should be between AMEX and Ryanair.

But it is very unlikely that your insurance would've paid out anyway - their initial brush off was exactly that and you've ended up in a situation where AMEX have refunded you and Ryanair haven't (yet) challenged it. Given the CMA report they obviously feel in a much stronger position.

Given your limited options for future flights only you can decide whether you're going to pay up and be able to fly again or remain blacklisted - I can't see Ryanair changing their minds and letting it go.

This only leaves you in the same position of thousands of others with non-refundable flights who were unable to take them due to government guidance

Thrugelmir

GrumpyOldMan2 said:

Thrugelmir said:

GrumpyOldMan2 said:

wolvoman said:

There's 2 parts to this.

Part 1: Small claims courts and chargebacks being used to get a refund on a non-refundable ticket for a trip which wasn't taken because of a disinclination to travel. That's what travel insurance and/or refundable tickets are for. As it happens some county court judgements and chargebacks have gone against the airlines on this.
(question here though - were Ryanair offering vouchers or alternate dates as an alternative to travel?)

Part 2: The behaviour of Ryanair in allowing bookings to be taken and a contract formed without any reference to an account being 'in arrears' from a previous chargeback, and then enforcing these 'arrears' much closer to the date of travel when other arrangements have been made. On this I have less sympathy with Ryanair, and I wonder if there's some legal avenue to persue them for consequential loss for breach of contract.

 I have just checked and as at 6/10/21 Ryanair still have £600m of UK taxpayer money, borrowed at a very low interest rate.

To repay the money Ryanair needs to make cash profits. So far not a good 2021 with sizable losses. The cost of Aviation fuel rising isn't going to help their cause either. 

As at Mar 21 they were sitting on 3,150,000,000 euros in cash.

Flights are booked in advance hence the cash balance. Expenditure follows....... How much operating loss did they make in the year to March 2021? 

GrumpyOldMan2

Flights are booked in advance hence the cash balance. Expenditure follows....... How much operating loss did they make in the year to March 2021?

You could Google Ryanair Results 2021 like I did. 1.1bn euros.

I suspect people will now book later with Ryanair, given their business practises so there is more certainty about if the flight will be feasible, those that are foolish enough to book with them, which fortunately will hit their cashflow. And expenditure ( nor the environment)  was not a consideration when they were flying empty planes so they could say that the flight wasn't cancelled. I wonder what proportion of the loss was accounted for by that? Also how much was incurred on the Recharge Staff Ryanair hired mid pandemic to challenge the recharge applications? And how was much wasted by repeatedly asking customers for the same information after sending the initial e-mails telling them refunds would be processed within 20 working days? I got about 8 different e-mails instructing me to use online chat.

And in a classic U-turn :

"Ryanair staff have told customers that the chargeback card-protection scheme is "a fraudulent activity" and could result in them being blacklisted by the airline in the future. But after MoneySavingExpert.com showed Ryanair evidence of this, the budget carrier said its customer service operatives got it wrong and that this is not its policy." (www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/05/ryanair-staff-wrongly-tell-customers--chargeback-is-fraud--and-c/)

Upsidedownandaround

GrumpyOldMan2 said:

Flights are booked in advance hence the cash balance. Expenditure follows....... How much operating loss did they make in the year to March 2021?

You could Google Ryanair Results 2021 like I did. 1.1bn euros.

I suspect people will now book later with Ryanair, given their business practises so there is more certainty about if the flight will be feasible, those that are foolish enough to book with them, which fortunately will hit their cashflow. And expenditure ( nor the environment)  was not a consideration when they were flying empty planes so they could say that the flight wasn't cancelled. I wonder what proportion of the loss was accounted for by that? Also how much was incurred on the Recharge Staff Ryanair hired mid pandemic to challenge the recharge applications? And how was much wasted by repeatedly asking customers for the same information after sending the initial e-mails telling them refunds would be processed within 20 working days? I got about 8 different e-mails instructing me to use online chat.

And in a classic U-turn :

"Ryanair staff have told customers that the chargeback card-protection scheme is "a fraudulent activity" and could result in them being blacklisted by the airline in the future. But after MoneySavingExpert.com showed Ryanair evidence of this, the budget carrier said its customer service operatives got it wrong and that this is not its policy." (www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/05/ryanair-staff-wrongly-tell-customers--chargeback-is-fraud--and-c/)

I suspect people will continue to book with Ryanair when they are at their cheapest.

Westin

Yes, of course they will.

We hear this bluster ever once in a while, whether disruption from cabin crew strikes, pilot shortages, withdrawal from certain airports, operational issues or delays - then people forget and still book with RyanAir because they offer cheap affordable travel for the masses.  This latest issue, experienced by a few after they incorrectly sort chargebacks will soon blow over. 

prowla

Who are Ryanair?

GrumpyOldMan2

prowla said:

Who are Ryanair?

LOL ... love it.