How do you reckon we'll be heating our homes in years to come?

robatwork

This is American, but he explains it really well. And lives somewhere with more extreme cold and heat than here.

Heat Pumps: the Future of Home Heating - YouTube

Rosa_Damascena

robatwork said:

This is American, but he explains it really well. And lives somewhere with more extreme cold and heat than here.

Heat Pumps: the Future of Home Heating - YouTube

I stopped watching after I recognised the concept to be Boyles Law (about 4.5mins in), life is too short to watch the rest.

edgex

ajfielden said:

annabanana82 said:

Some of our neighbours are HA, about 6 years ago the HA fitted the air source heat pumps to their houses and none of the tenants are pleased with them, claim they are more expensive and don't heat the homes sufficiently.

That is quite worrying isn't it? We're being pushed an alternative heating solution that isn't as effective, and actually costs more to run. 
The govt doesn't give a damn because they've ticked the 'net carbon zero' box. 

ASHP's are very effective, when the property is suitable for them.
A Coefficient of Performance of 3 means that for every 1kw of energy put into the unit, you get 3kw out.
So they are more efficient than any system that burns fuel.

They are more expensive to run at the moment because electricity is 4+times as expensive as gas.

But, if you improve the insulation level of the property, then you won't need so much heat input, reducing the cost.
Add solar-pv & use it to run the ASHP & then divert to an immersion heater, & that reduces the cost again.
Gas prices will continue to rise, so the differential between gas & electric prices will reduce. 

robatwork

Rosa_Damascena said:

robatwork said:

This is American, but he explains it really well. And lives somewhere with more extreme cold and heat than here.

Heat Pumps: the Future of Home Heating - YouTube

I stopped watching after I recognised the concept to be Boyles Law (about 4.5mins in), life is too short to watch the rest.

His main point (there's a second video too) is that it doesn't take much new hardware to turn an aircon system into an air heat pump. And unless the temperature goes well below zero it can still heat a space. 

Of course aircon is far more widespread in the US anyway but I think on average the cost of heat source combined with a gas boiler for really cold days was about 1/5 of gas only

edgex

Section62 said:

Rosa_Damascena said:

This is the government's problem to solve. There is no way they can force people to buy a solution forced on them with money they haven't got. I can see gas being around for much longer unless the right sweeteners for early adoption are thrown in PDQ and the industry expands to make it more affordable for the rest of us.

Similar arguments were made about getting rid of lead in petrol.  People weren't going to be able to afford to buy a replacement car which could run lead-free, or afford having conversion work done on their car.

The government started to impose a tax differential on leaded fuel.

People adapted by buying replacement cars which used unleaded.


Part of the solution when it comes to affordability is going to require mortgage companies to release additional funds for heating and insulation upgrades. And make the process of getting those additional funds easier than the traditional approach of getting further advances.

I think there will be limited public tolerance of additional tax (or energy levies) to fund home improvements for people sitting on assets with 5 or 6-figure amounts of equity available for release.

They also need to;
remove VAT from retrofit/renovation materials & installation services

explicitly allow insulation standards that are appropriate to the property (a solid-walled property shouldn't go lower than a 0.5U-value, so you can't reach the 0.3 or better that's currently expected)

give extra allowances for extensions if you make them very high performance*

Government should be doing some of this work, as it would help with bringing down materials costs, & ensure standards.
(they could easily contract it for those on specific benefits like disability)



* I would like to build a 2storey extension on the rear of an end-terrace. That would involve replacing the existing tunnel-back with new build, which would then mean that 1/3 of the property could exceed current standards.
If planning only allows a 1storey infill, then it would only be 1/6 meeting current standards.

FreeBear

edgex said: They also need to;
remove VAT from retrofit/renovation materials & installation services

They would probably tell you that an MCS certified installer must be used to qualify for VAT exemption. Based on what I've seen for previous "green initiatives", these companies will charge well over the top, resulting in little real world saving for the home owner.

edgex

bris said:

Hydrogen will take over from full Gas boilers as the main stream alternative.

Worcester and Baxi are well on their way to developing them, Worcester I believe have a 100% Hydrogen boiler almost ready and there is also a way to use our existing boilers with a mix of both gas and hydrogen that might meet the omissions targets.

Heat source, ground source etc will be about but I believe the cost is prohibitive so the answer is hydrogen, a good clean energy source.

Existing infrastructure can only supply a mix of up to 10% hydrogen. Above that needs replacement of the compressors, & even additional ones.
Also, you can only switch over an existing gasline when everything connected to it can use hydrogen. A new combi should last 15 years, so it would be 2035-2040 before it can be started. You've also got to change the meters & any other gas appliances.


Hydrogen is only 'clean' if it's made in a clean way, or carbon-capture is used.


Good article here, where there's talk of using a combination of heat-pump + hydrogen
https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/hydrogen-heating

coffeehound

edgex said:

Hydrogen is only 'clean' if it's made in a clean way, or carbon-capture is used.

Why is carbon capture an issue for hydrogen heating?

Andy_L

coffeehound said:

edgex said:

Hydrogen is only 'clean' if it's made in a clean way, or carbon-capture is used.

Why is carbon capture an issue for hydrogen heating?

If your hydrogen is made from fossil fuels (which, AIUI, most is) you need to do something with the carbon that you've separated from the Hydrogen.  

coffeehound

I thought it was made by splitting water?  Daft if it is not independent of FF