I'm taking Ryanair through the small claims court

Markh5096

[Deleted User] said:

Possibly relevant for the OP: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/28/ryanair-to-shakeup-refunds-policy-after-pandemic-criticism

Thanks, but probably not relevant - their whole argument in my case is that they didn't cancel the flight.

eskbanker

Markh5096 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Possibly relevant for the OP: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/28/ryanair-to-shakeup-refunds-policy-after-pandemic-criticism

Thanks, but probably not relevant - their whole argument in my case is that they didn't cancel the flight.

I was just about to post the same thing, and was just looking for the original source of the story, which is at https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-improves-industry-leading-customer-service/

In rare cases of cancellations, customers who request a refund will now get confirmation and access to it within 24hrs in myRyanair and will be refunded to the original form of payment within 5 working days.

Breathtaking levels of spin to headline a story "Ryanair Improves Industry Leading Customer Service" but it's clear that it relates only to flights that are cancelled, and therefore mandated to be refunded (under EC261/2004) within seven days (five of which will be working days of course), so they're seeking credit for doing no more than committing to meet their legal obligations!

CKhalvashi

[Deleted User] said:

Possibly relevant for the OP: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/28/ryanair-to-shakeup-refunds-policy-after-pandemic-criticism

So they're going to meet their legal obligations having failed to for the last 20 months?

Wow, how amazing! (Please do sense the sarcasm in this).

It's only relevant to cancelled flights, which are the only flights legally eligible for a refund until a judge decides otherwise. I know this hasn't been tested in the case of a pandemic yet, but a judge has not overturned this on the many occasions before as it's acting completely within the law.

Ryanair have also stated that they will not chase reimbursement from those who have correctly sought a refund from their bank when the airline has not met its legal obligations. That isn't relevant here under my reading of the legislation.

michael1234

CKhalvashi said:

[Deleted User] said:

Possibly relevant for the OP: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/28/ryanair-to-shakeup-refunds-policy-after-pandemic-criticism

So they're going to meet their legal obligations having failed to for the last 20 months?

Wow, how amazing! (Please do sense the sarcasm in this).

It's only relevant to cancelled flights, which are the only flights legally eligible for a refund until a judge decides otherwise. I know this hasn't been tested in the case of a pandemic yet, but a judge has not overturned this on the many occasions before as it's acting completely within the law.

Ryanair have also stated that they will not chase reimbursement from those who have correctly sought a refund from their bank when the airline has not met its legal obligations. That isn't relevant here under my reading of the legislation.

Care to name any?

Markh5096

So, my hearing finally took place at Manchester Justice Centre on Tuesday. I'm sad, though not entirely surprised, to report that I lost.

Whilst the DJ was appropriately sympathetic, he had to follow the law, and the contract I agreed with Ryanair (via its Ts&Cs) did not give me any right to a refund. I guess the writing was on the wall when the CMA dropped its campaign, on the basis that "it was far from clear that there could be a successful outcome".

Thanks to all who offered support.

emmajones1976

I am not surprised.

CKhalvashi

Markh5096 said:

So, my hearing finally took place at Manchester Justice Centre on Tuesday. I'm sad, though not entirely surprised, to report that I lost.

Whilst the DJ was appropriately sympathetic, he had to follow the law, and the contract I agreed with Ryanair (via its Ts&Cs) did not give me any right to a refund. I guess the writing was on the wall when the CMA dropped its campaign, on the basis that "it was far from clear that there could be a successful outcome".

Thanks to all who offered support.

Thanks Mark for the update.

Unfortunately for you I too am not surprised, but I thank you for bringing the case and providing a significant amount of clarity in how the courts will deal with this situation.

I'd just like to highlight here that you bought the tickets in June 2020 and there may be some leverage for those who bought tickets before approximately 10 March 2020 to claim via other arguments, however I'm also not convinced that this will work even though others will disagree with me here.

bagand96

Markh5096 said:

So, my hearing finally took place at Manchester Justice Centre on Tuesday. I'm sad, though not entirely surprised, to report that I lost.

Whilst the DJ was appropriately sympathetic, he had to follow the law, and the contract I agreed with Ryanair (via its Ts&Cs) did not give me any right to a refund. I guess the writing was on the wall when the CMA dropped its campaign, on the basis that "it was far from clear that there could be a successful outcome".

Thanks to all who offered support.

Thanks Mark for coming back and updating the forum. 

As someone who was sceptical of your chances of success, I take no pleasure to see you lose the hearing (as I'm sure that's the case for other MSE'rs too). 

eskbanker

Markh5096 said:

So, my hearing finally took place at Manchester Justice Centre on Tuesday. I'm sad, though not entirely surprised, to report that I lost.

Whilst the DJ was appropriately sympathetic, he had to follow the law, and the contract I agreed with Ryanair (via its Ts&Cs) did not give me any right to a refund. I guess the writing was on the wall when the CMA dropped its campaign, on the basis that "it was far from clear that there could be a successful outcome".

Thanks to all who offered support.

A painful experience I'm sure, and, like others who didn't rate your chances, it gives me no satisfaction to see this outcome, but are you able to share any detail of how the 'contract frustration' argument was dealt with?  It seemed all along that there wasn't much room for debate about not having any refund rights granted by the contract itself but I understood that you were instead approaching this from the wider perspective of that contract being frustrated....

Thrugelmir

bagand96 said:

Markh5096 said:

So, my hearing finally took place at Manchester Justice Centre on Tuesday. I'm sad, though not entirely surprised, to report that I lost.

Whilst the DJ was appropriately sympathetic, he had to follow the law, and the contract I agreed with Ryanair (via its Ts&Cs) did not give me any right to a refund. I guess the writing was on the wall when the CMA dropped its campaign, on the basis that "it was far from clear that there could be a successful outcome".

Thanks to all who offered support.

Thanks Mark for coming back and updating the forum. 

As someone who was sceptical of your chances of success, I take no pleasure to see you lose the hearing (as I'm sure that's the case for other MSE'rs too). 

Judges are no different to posters on MSE. We all have personal opinions on topics, but that cannot be overridden by legal, regulatory and other considerations.