I'm taking Ryanair through the small claims court

michael1234

Markh5096 said:

Good on a company for standing up to such blatant fraudulent actions by a minority who don't wish to read terms and conditions.

I don't see how not reading the terms (or agreeing to them) amounts to fraud.

I would advise anyone in the first instance to seek a chargeback.

I copied Ryanair’s terms and conditions into a Word document, as part of my research. 20,676 words, apparently. I very much doubt that it’s just a ‘minority’ who don’t read them.

Yes I think I'm agreeing with you.

CKhalvashi

michael1234 said:

CKhalvashi said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Ryanair bars passengers from flying unless they repay pandemic ‘chargebacks’

An Irish woman who tried to check-in for a Dublin-bound Ryanair flight at the start of October was barred by the airline until she repaid a refund she had sought from her bank for an earlier Ryanair flight she had been unable to take because of Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Ursula Barry was one of hundreds of customers who were blocked from checking in for Ryanair flights that had been booked and paid for because they sought so-called chargebacks from their banks in place of a refund processed by the airline.

The airline gets worse....

I read this earlier.

I don't agree with how they're going about getting the money as I believe this should be done either at booking or as soon as possible after, but agree they are entitled to do this.

Good on a company for standing up to such blatant fraudulent actions by a minority who don't wish to read terms and conditions.

I don't see how not reading the terms (or agreeing to them) amounts to fraud.

I would advise anyone in the first instance to seek a chargeback.

A bank will require evidence of non delivery of services for this to work.

If a chargeback is successful after the lack of genuine evidence has been supplied, it falls perfectly into the definition of Fraud by false Representation, as deception has to play a part in this.

I have explained this previously to you.

michael1234

CKhalvashi said:

michael1234 said:

CKhalvashi said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Ryanair bars passengers from flying unless they repay pandemic ‘chargebacks’

An Irish woman who tried to check-in for a Dublin-bound Ryanair flight at the start of October was barred by the airline until she repaid a refund she had sought from her bank for an earlier Ryanair flight she had been unable to take because of Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Ursula Barry was one of hundreds of customers who were blocked from checking in for Ryanair flights that had been booked and paid for because they sought so-called chargebacks from their banks in place of a refund processed by the airline.

The airline gets worse....

I read this earlier.

I don't agree with how they're going about getting the money as I believe this should be done either at booking or as soon as possible after, but agree they are entitled to do this.

Good on a company for standing up to such blatant fraudulent actions by a minority who don't wish to read terms and conditions.

I don't see how not reading the terms (or agreeing to them) amounts to fraud.

I would advise anyone in the first instance to seek a chargeback.

A bank will require evidence of non delivery of services for this to work.

If a chargeback is successful after the lack of genuine evidence has been supplied, it falls perfectly into the definition of Fraud by false Representation, as deception has to play a part in this.

I have explained this previously to you.

Yes but I think you're mistaken though. I don't think it amounts to fraud.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree 8-)

Thrugelmir

michael1234 said:

CKhalvashi said:

michael1234 said:

CKhalvashi said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Ryanair bars passengers from flying unless they repay pandemic ‘chargebacks’

An Irish woman who tried to check-in for a Dublin-bound Ryanair flight at the start of October was barred by the airline until she repaid a refund she had sought from her bank for an earlier Ryanair flight she had been unable to take because of Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Ursula Barry was one of hundreds of customers who were blocked from checking in for Ryanair flights that had been booked and paid for because they sought so-called chargebacks from their banks in place of a refund processed by the airline.

The airline gets worse....

I read this earlier.

I don't agree with how they're going about getting the money as I believe this should be done either at booking or as soon as possible after, but agree they are entitled to do this.

Good on a company for standing up to such blatant fraudulent actions by a minority who don't wish to read terms and conditions.

I don't see how not reading the terms (or agreeing to them) amounts to fraud.

I would advise anyone in the first instance to seek a chargeback.

A bank will require evidence of non delivery of services for this to work.

If a chargeback is successful after the lack of genuine evidence has been supplied, it falls perfectly into the definition of Fraud by false Representation, as deception has to play a part in this.

I have explained this previously to you.

Yes but I think you're mistaken though. I don't think it amounts to fraud.

In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. 

Thrugelmir

Markh5096 said:

Good on a company for standing up to such blatant fraudulent actions by a minority who don't wish to read terms and conditions.

I don't see how not reading the terms (or agreeing to them) amounts to fraud.

I would advise anyone in the first instance to seek a chargeback.

I copied Ryanair’s terms and conditions into a Word document, as part of my research. 20,676 words, apparently. I very much doubt that it’s just a ‘minority’ who don’t read them.

Reflects the fact that the attention span of the average Facebook is now less than a goldfish at 8 seconds. Skim reading isn't difficult if one applies oneself.  My last job involved contracts that ran to 800 odd pages long.  Extracting the salient points from all the legalese wasn't onerous. 

Markh5096

Thrugelmir said:

Markh5096 said:

Good on a company for standing up to such blatant fraudulent actions by a minority who don't wish to read terms and conditions.

I don't see how not reading the terms (or agreeing to them) amounts to fraud.

I would advise anyone in the first instance to seek a chargeback.

I copied Ryanair’s terms and conditions into a Word document, as part of my research. 20,676 words, apparently. I very much doubt that it’s just a ‘minority’ who don’t read them.

Reflects the fact that the attention span of the average Facebook is now less than a goldfish at 8 seconds. Skim reading isn't difficult if one applies oneself.  My last job involved contracts that ran to 800 odd pages long.  Extracting the salient points from all the legalese wasn't onerous. 

I don’t think there is such a thing as “ a Facebook”, let alone an average one. With or without an attention span.

GingerTim

Ibrahim5 said:

You do wonder what it would take for everyone to boycott Ryanair. We desperately try to avoid them but sometimes they are really the only provider and we end up reluctantly buying tickets.

I almost grudgingly admire Ryanair's commitment to s-housery. They are essentially the Sergio Ramos of airlines.

CKhalvashi

MiserlyMartin said:

Ryanair bars passengers from flying unless they repay pandemic ‘chargebacks’

An Irish woman who tried to check-in for a Dublin-bound Ryanair flight at the start of October was barred by the airline until she repaid a refund she had sought from her bank for an earlier Ryanair flight she had been unable to take because of Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Ursula Barry was one of hundreds of customers who were blocked from checking in for Ryanair flights that had been booked and paid for because they sought so-called chargebacks from their banks in place of a refund processed by the airline.

The airline gets worse....

And Bank of Ireland admit they were wrong to deprive Ryanair of funds they are legally entitled to.

I assume this has been checked by lawyers before going to press due to the implications for many.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/bank-of-ireland-says-it-was-wrong-to-seek-refund-for-ryanair-passenger-who-requested-it-1.4699687?mode=amp

I would therefore encourage anyone who has been refunded incorrectly to contact Ryanair to settle their debts.

michael1234

CKhalvashi said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Ryanair bars passengers from flying unless they repay pandemic ‘chargebacks’

An Irish woman who tried to check-in for a Dublin-bound Ryanair flight at the start of October was barred by the airline until she repaid a refund she had sought from her bank for an earlier Ryanair flight she had been unable to take because of Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Ursula Barry was one of hundreds of customers who were blocked from checking in for Ryanair flights that had been booked and paid for because they sought so-called chargebacks from their banks in place of a refund processed by the airline.

The airline gets worse....

And Bank of Ireland admit they were wrong to deprive Ryanair of funds they are legally entitled to.

I assume this has been checked by lawyers before going to press due to the implications for many.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/bank-of-ireland-says-it-was-wrong-to-seek-refund-for-ryanair-passenger-who-requested-it-1.4699687?mode=amp

I would therefore encourage anyone who has been refunded incorrectly to contact Ryanair to settle their debts.

Don't you mean anyone in Ireland? Our laws are not the same.

I would encourage those who have illegally been denied boarding to sue.

CKhalvashi

michael1234 said:

CKhalvashi said:

MiserlyMartin said:

Ryanair bars passengers from flying unless they repay pandemic ‘chargebacks’

An Irish woman who tried to check-in for a Dublin-bound Ryanair flight at the start of October was barred by the airline until she repaid a refund she had sought from her bank for an earlier Ryanair flight she had been unable to take because of Covid-19 travel restrictions.

Ursula Barry was one of hundreds of customers who were blocked from checking in for Ryanair flights that had been booked and paid for because they sought so-called chargebacks from their banks in place of a refund processed by the airline.

The airline gets worse....

And Bank of Ireland admit they were wrong to deprive Ryanair of funds they are legally entitled to.

I assume this has been checked by lawyers before going to press due to the implications for many.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/bank-of-ireland-says-it-was-wrong-to-seek-refund-for-ryanair-passenger-who-requested-it-1.4699687?mode=amp

I would therefore encourage anyone who has been refunded incorrectly to contact Ryanair to settle their debts.

Don't you mean anyone in Ireland? Our laws are not the same.

I would encourage those who have illegally been denied boarding to sue.

UK law is currently virtually identical to EU law in this area, with the main exception of compensation amounts.

The Chargeback rules are the same for Visa and Mastercard and UK courts will accept recognised practice. Ryanair contracts are subject to the jurisdiction of Irish legislation (For all FR coded flights) and this case involves an Irish bank who are in the best position to understand local legislation.

No EU company is obliged to follow advice with no legal backing from a third country state. Ryanair have chosen not to.

I would be interested in what breach of contract you believe there is in British law that is not relevant in Irish law, as I must sadly be missing some knowledge in this specific area that you would be able to assist me with correcting.