PCM and Gladstones

Not_A_Hope

At this late stage I think PCM will simply refer you to Gladstones Solicitors and their letter states how the debt should be disputed. Their on line form will no doubt phish for info such information as who was driving, telephone number (so they can harass you) etc. If you do decide to engage in anyway (no phone calls) do not name the driver until you have seen all their paperwork. No using words like I.

Please read the Newbies thread. You are now at Pre-Action stage and it does suggest that an appeal to the Landowner might be worthwhile. At this stage you should be submitting a SAR to PCM to get all the letters you  may no longer possess and information they will be relying on court. There is also a link to an excellent source of information on residential parking by Parking Prankster that will help you understand the law and where parking companies often slip up

Not_A_Hope

The Newbies page tells you this below.

I would therefore not bother 'disputing the debt' using Gladstones on line reply form. But you send PCM a SAR and Gladstones a debt advice letter which will put the claim process on hold for 30 days whilst you gather all the relevant information that will be useful for the defence of a court claim.

SMALL CLAIM? 
IF YOU HAVE A THREAD, REPLY ON IT, DON'T START A NEW ONE.

Pre-action stage:
If you have a 'Letter of claim' or Letter Before Claim (LBC), a claim IS likely. I mean a 'real' LBC with a 30 day deadline and reply forms.

DO NOT use the 'reply forms'. You do not have to declare your finances!

This is a chance to see the PPC's hand - so send them (NOT their solicitor!) a Subject Access Request 'SAR' listing what you want to see by way of data the PPC holds about you:

https://legalbeagles.info/library/guides_and_letters/court/subject-access-request/

Find out where to send the SAR by email, by looking on the Parking firm's PRIVACY webpage, telling you where to send 'data concerns' to their Data Protection Officer (DPO).

You do NOT have to supply intrusive ID (intrusive = driving licence or Passport) so refuse that if they demand it, but you do have to show that you are the correct data subject. So attach a scan of your V5C if you still own the car, or if not, a utility bill to show your name and address.

A SAR is free. Ask for (as a minimum):
- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this; follow it up if they refuse).
- all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims.

As well as the SAR to the parking firm's DPO, also write another email, if they are using Gladstones, DCLegal, BW Legal or other solicitor.
Your email tells the solicitor:
(a) I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.
(b) I have sent your client a SAR
(c) also confirm your correct 'address for service' if you've moved and the PPC has two addresses. 

keithtoon

Not_A_Hope said:

The Newbies page tells you this below.

I would therefore not bother 'disputing the debt' using Gladstones on line reply form. But you send PCM a SAR and Gladstones a debt advice letter which will put the claim process on hold for 30 days whilst you gather all the relevant information that will be useful for the defence of a court claim.

SMALL CLAIM? 
IF YOU HAVE A THREAD, REPLY ON IT, DON'T START A NEW ONE.

Pre-action stage:
If you have a 'Letter of claim' or Letter Before Claim (LBC), a claim IS likely. I mean a 'real' LBC with a 30 day deadline and reply forms.

DO NOT use the 'reply forms'. You do not have to declare your finances!

This is a chance to see the PPC's hand - so send them (NOT their solicitor!) a Subject Access Request 'SAR' listing what you want to see by way of data the PPC holds about you:

https://legalbeagles.info/library/guides_and_letters/court/subject-access-request/

Find out where to send the SAR by email, by looking on the Parking firm's PRIVACY webpage, telling you where to send 'data concerns' to their Data Protection Officer (DPO).

You do NOT have to supply intrusive ID (intrusive = driving licence or Passport) so refuse that if they demand it, but you do have to show that you are the correct data subject. So attach a scan of your V5C if you still own the car, or if not, a utility bill to show your name and address.

A SAR is free. Ask for (as a minimum):
- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this; follow it up if they refuse).
- all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims.

As well as the SAR to the parking firm's DPO, also write another email, if they are using Gladstones, DCLegal, BW Legal or other solicitor.
Your email tells the solicitor:
(a) I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt and the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.
(b) I have sent your client a SAR
(c) also confirm your correct 'address for service' if you've moved and the PPC has two addresses. 

Wow!!!   Thank you so much.
He came home from work yesterday and told me he destroyed the letters as he was told nothing will become of the  "Parking Fine" So yes I will request all paper work etc to be resent as in your helpful advise. i will Email PCM via their website portal. 

"A SAR is free. Ask for (as a minimum):
- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this; follow it up if they refuse).
- all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims"

keithtoon

Hi, UPDATE.
He lives with his mother so no Utility bills in his name, also the car was scrapped Dec/Jan 2021.
Should we just ignore this question till they insist on having proof of address?
TIA_ Kg

KeithP

No mobile telephone bill?

Not_A_Hope

Under GDPR rules they have to confirm who they are sending someone's personal information to. You could send them a copy of the Letter Before Claim they have sent as this has his address on and proves he is the data subject. They will probably require a second piece of evidence before they will agree so anything else with his address on (but no photo ID such as passport or driving licence)

keithtoon

KeithP said:

No mobile telephone bill?

Sorry I have been away...Man Flu !!!!
Yes he has mobile so will get him to email it to me.
Thank you

keithtoon

Le_Kirk said:

In order to have progressed as far as a letter before claim there must/should have been the original PCN plus reminder letters (and usually some debt collector letters) which you don't refer to.  Did these appear and the chap has filed them in the recycling bin?  Was/is the name and address on the V5C correct (yes, I know it is scrapped - irrelevant)?  If he has moved recently, he should inform the PPC of his new address for service; what he doesn't need is a CCJ by default because any claim forms were posted to an old address.

UPDATE;
Thank you for all your help guys! I emailed the forms you informed me to do.
Last week another letter has arrived. ??? 
We have not had any replies from the emails we sent to them, so do we just sit tight?

Not_A_Hope

Look looks like they sent this latest begging letter a couple of days after your first post on here. Obviously they would like you to pay their PCN scam now when you probably have a defendable case in court. You can file and ignoreit.

If you advised Gladstones that you were seeking debt advice this will put any court proceedings on hold for 30 days. This should give the PPC time to respond within the 30 day time limit. Don't expect them to respond quickly. If they don't reply within the timescales you need to write again giving them 7 days to respond or you will complain to the ICO.

D_P_Dance

Amount die £160

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.gladstonessolicitors.co.uk