Administration Fees for getting a refund from a cancelled flight from an agent?

Jumblebumble

Thrugelmir said:

MercilessKiller said:

eskbanker said:

https://uk.mytrip.com/rf/travel-conditions#APPENDICES_FEES (a link in your earlier Ts & Cs extract) clearly states that they charge a fee when the airline cancels:

Refund Handling Fee For all refunds requested by You, including requests for refund of ticket amount, taxes, fees and/or charges from the airline. The fee applies also for our administrative work in case of an airline cancellation.

55 GBP per traveler Refund following airline cancellation: 30 GBP per booking

I'm just very surprised customers can be left out of pocket in this type of situation.

Should the business be out of pocket?  Their overheads need to be covered. Staff certainly don't work for free. You had the option to book direct. 

The business make the profit on the transaction when things go to plan
If the business end up providing no value to the customer then sorry to say it is bad luck
If  I  ordered something to be delivered by Ocado and they did not turn up because the driver went AWOL would you try and argue that they had to pay the driver and so should not refund me in full ?
I equally had the option to go to the supermarket direct and not use home delivery but so what.

Thrugelmir

Jumblebumble said:

Thrugelmir said:

MercilessKiller said:

eskbanker said:

https://uk.mytrip.com/rf/travel-conditions#APPENDICES_FEES (a link in your earlier Ts & Cs extract) clearly states that they charge a fee when the airline cancels:

Refund Handling Fee For all refunds requested by You, including requests for refund of ticket amount, taxes, fees and/or charges from the airline. The fee applies also for our administrative work in case of an airline cancellation.

55 GBP per traveler Refund following airline cancellation: 30 GBP per booking

I'm just very surprised customers can be left out of pocket in this type of situation.

Should the business be out of pocket?  Their overheads need to be covered. Staff certainly don't work for free. You had the option to book direct. 

The business make the profit on the transaction when things go to plan.
If the business end up providing no value to the customer then sorry to say it is bad luck

That's why there's a cancellation clause in the standard contract of every ticket agency. In business you don't rely purely on luck. Be totally stupid to do so. Certainly not the way to run a business. 

bagand96

Jumblebumble said:

Thrugelmir said:

MercilessKiller said:

eskbanker said:

https://uk.mytrip.com/rf/travel-conditions#APPENDICES_FEES (a link in your earlier Ts & Cs extract) clearly states that they charge a fee when the airline cancels:

Refund Handling Fee For all refunds requested by You, including requests for refund of ticket amount, taxes, fees and/or charges from the airline. The fee applies also for our administrative work in case of an airline cancellation.

55 GBP per traveler Refund following airline cancellation: 30 GBP per booking

I'm just very surprised customers can be left out of pocket in this type of situation.

Should the business be out of pocket?  Their overheads need to be covered. Staff certainly don't work for free. You had the option to book direct. 

The business make the profit on the transaction when things go to plan
If the business end up providing no value to the customer then sorry to say it is bad luck
If  I  ordered something to be delivered by Ocado and they did not turn up because the driver went AWOL would you try and argue that they had to pay the driver and so should not refund me in full ?
I equally had the option to go to the supermarket direct and not use home delivery but so what.

Online Travel Agents make very little, or even nothing, on flight sales for low cost airlines. They make their money on the hope you buy extras or need to use their customer service and pay admin fees. 

Your anology isn't comparable. In this example the OP is buying something from Wizzair but appointing MyTrip as their agent in the transaction.  Your analogy would only work of you're buying groceries directly from the van driver, with Ocado acting as an agent in between. 

CKhalvashi

MercilessKiller said:

Butts said:

MercilessKiller said:

So a brief update!

Amex closed the dispute and credited my account - though at the same time I got an email saying they estimate to close it on November 23rd (bit confusing so assuming it is still open until then). 

Meanwhile, MyTrip got in contact with me and said they received a chargeback request and will reply in January 2022. Not sure how this works as Amex told me they'll resolve in November...

The worry I now have is the flight was booked for December. So let's say mytrip fight it in January 2022 and Amex reverse the chargeback, can I then go back to MyTrip, pay the admin fee and get the refund in Jan 2022 for the cancelled flight or will they say I needed to do that BEFORE the flight date? I.E could I lose my ability to get any refund due to this going on beyond the flight date?

Eurghhh

Are they extracting the urine ?

It seems purposeful that they wont respond to it until after the flight - My worry is that's to avoid having to give me any refund at all basically.  

I don't agree with this.

There are certain requirements a company needs to meet in relation to chargebacks as part of the rules, which in this case it would appear they may fail to do so.

They may lose the ability to dispute this as a result.

MercilessKiller

CKhalvashi said:

MercilessKiller said:

Butts said:

MercilessKiller said:

So a brief update!

Amex closed the dispute and credited my account - though at the same time I got an email saying they estimate to close it on November 23rd (bit confusing so assuming it is still open until then). 

Meanwhile, MyTrip got in contact with me and said they received a chargeback request and will reply in January 2022. Not sure how this works as Amex told me they'll resolve in November...

The worry I now have is the flight was booked for December. So let's say mytrip fight it in January 2022 and Amex reverse the chargeback, can I then go back to MyTrip, pay the admin fee and get the refund in Jan 2022 for the cancelled flight or will they say I needed to do that BEFORE the flight date? I.E could I lose my ability to get any refund due to this going on beyond the flight date?

Eurghhh

Are they extracting the urine ?

It seems purposeful that they wont respond to it until after the flight - My worry is that's to avoid having to give me any refund at all basically.  

I don't agree with this.

There are certain requirements a company needs to meet in relation to chargebacks as part of the rules, which in this case it would appear they may fail to do so.

They may lose the ability to dispute this as a result.

Interesting - well I'll keep you updated. Amex said late November at the latest so if I haven't heard anything, I'll get in touch with them as the last thing I want is the chargeback potentially reversible at "anytime" in the future with no limit ha

eskbanker

MercilessKiller said:
the last thing I want is the chargeback potentially reversible at "anytime" in the future with no limit

As seen on the recent Ryanair threads, failure by a merchant to dispute a chargeback doesn't prevent them from seeking recovery of the cost at a later date.

The chargeback process itself may complete, i.e. no further action by the card issuer, but that doesn't resolve the underlying contractual dispute as such, so the merchant still has the legal right to pursue the customer independently, until the statute of limitations comes into play.

Anecdotally, I'm sure I've read on here of at least one card issuer reversing a chargeback well after the window within which they were meant to have done so, but can't recall enough detail to search for the thread(s)....

CKhalvashi

MercilessKiller said:

CKhalvashi said:

MercilessKiller said:

Butts said:

MercilessKiller said:

So a brief update!

Amex closed the dispute and credited my account - though at the same time I got an email saying they estimate to close it on November 23rd (bit confusing so assuming it is still open until then). 

Meanwhile, MyTrip got in contact with me and said they received a chargeback request and will reply in January 2022. Not sure how this works as Amex told me they'll resolve in November...

The worry I now have is the flight was booked for December. So let's say mytrip fight it in January 2022 and Amex reverse the chargeback, can I then go back to MyTrip, pay the admin fee and get the refund in Jan 2022 for the cancelled flight or will they say I needed to do that BEFORE the flight date? I.E could I lose my ability to get any refund due to this going on beyond the flight date?

Eurghhh

Are they extracting the urine ?

It seems purposeful that they wont respond to it until after the flight - My worry is that's to avoid having to give me any refund at all basically.  

I don't agree with this.

There are certain requirements a company needs to meet in relation to chargebacks as part of the rules, which in this case it would appear they may fail to do so.

They may lose the ability to dispute this as a result.

Interesting - well I'll keep you updated. Amex said late November at the latest so if I haven't heard anything, I'll get in touch with them as the last thing I want is the chargeback potentially reversible at "anytime" in the future with no limit ha

I don't want to go into detail as I don't want to identify the company and therefore potentially be viewed as advertising, but my interests in the industry are specifically in one area and don't cross into flights, so my knowledge is in general quite broad, even though I have read the regulations in depth before deciding touching flights wasn't worth the hassle.

There will be no reversability after a certain date and there are specific and strict timescales which have to be adhered to. I would have to check but I believe for UK transactions this is 45 days. We don't accept Amex as a method of payment but I can check this if required.

Ultimately though there will be a time limit in the event of a dispute. This is the most important thing.

As Eskbanker mentions, the company may wish to proceed with enforcement via other means, and we can advise on this too but there potentially may be far less of a case in this event as this has not been tested in court to the best of my knowledge in these circumstances.

MercilessKiller

CKhalvashi said:

MercilessKiller said:

CKhalvashi said:

MercilessKiller said:

Butts said:

MercilessKiller said:

So a brief update!

Amex closed the dispute and credited my account - though at the same time I got an email saying they estimate to close it on November 23rd (bit confusing so assuming it is still open until then). 

Meanwhile, MyTrip got in contact with me and said they received a chargeback request and will reply in January 2022. Not sure how this works as Amex told me they'll resolve in November...

The worry I now have is the flight was booked for December. So let's say mytrip fight it in January 2022 and Amex reverse the chargeback, can I then go back to MyTrip, pay the admin fee and get the refund in Jan 2022 for the cancelled flight or will they say I needed to do that BEFORE the flight date? I.E could I lose my ability to get any refund due to this going on beyond the flight date?

Eurghhh

Are they extracting the urine ?

It seems purposeful that they wont respond to it until after the flight - My worry is that's to avoid having to give me any refund at all basically.  

I don't agree with this.

There are certain requirements a company needs to meet in relation to chargebacks as part of the rules, which in this case it would appear they may fail to do so.

They may lose the ability to dispute this as a result.

Interesting - well I'll keep you updated. Amex said late November at the latest so if I haven't heard anything, I'll get in touch with them as the last thing I want is the chargeback potentially reversible at "anytime" in the future with no limit ha

I don't want to go into detail as I don't want to identify the company and therefore potentially be viewed as advertising, but my interests in the industry are specifically in one area and don't cross into flights, so my knowledge is in general quite broad, even though I have read the regulations in depth before deciding touching flights wasn't worth the hassle.

There will be no reversability after a certain date and there are specific and strict timescales which have to be adhered to. I would have to check but I believe for UK transactions this is 45 days. We don't accept Amex as a method of payment but I can check this if required.

Ultimately though there will be a time limit in the event of a dispute. This is the most important thing.

As Eskbanker mentions, the company may wish to proceed with enforcement via other means, and we can advise on this too but there potentially may be far less of a case in this event as this has not been tested in court to the best of my knowledge in these circumstances.

Thanks - Really appreciate the insight. 

I've definitely learnt a lot through this forum post and the exchanges. It's interesting that a lot of the activity related to this practice hasn't been really tested in court (both the £30 refund "admin" fee but also in this case reclaiming fees from a chargeback). I wonder if whether over the next year or 2 we'll start to see some potential cases though ultimately this is all at this point in my case to avoid simply £30. 

Then again, similar to parking tickets a lot of people simply don't want the hassle so just "pay up". I had a fight nearly go to court once for getting a ticket parking in my own spot (it was a mistake by the parking company - they wouldn't reverse it though and it required a letter before action to be sent before it did get reversed - eurgh). 

Either way, appreciate all the comments and will provide an update in a month or so either way once I've spoken with Amex post deadline day.

CKhalvashi

Completely get you. Others don't hold my morals in business and I don't believe a £30 fee is fair in your case, but don't necessarily believe this will be the case in all situations we come across here, especially when we move into higher amounts. I hold views that Ryanair are completely justified in reclaiming debts from travellers for flights that went ahead which may seem conflicting, but it's not when taken into account that a saving has been made by purchasing specifically non-refundable flights and I have fully explained my thoughts on threads related to that matter. I also don't agree necessarily with money being demanded at check-in, and wish they'd do it either when booking or as soon as possible after.

I think this will go to court, but I also think it will be an agent doing it rather than a consumer for the reasons you mention. Either way, please do post back the result either way with the justifications if possible from Amex, as this thread likely will be a very informative subject to others with similar issues as a way to formulate arguments to their own circumstances.

cheapskatevicar

MercilessKiller said:

.....

After speaking with MyTrip this morning, they told me they will only process a refund if I agree to pay them an administrative charge....

I would have thought that you would have made the agreement for their administrative charge in the original transaction. Whatever the case, my experience is that AmEx is very good when it comes to retail disputes.
I used an agent for a flight booking in May 2020. As soon as saw the flight was cancelled by BA in April, I requested a chargeback with AmEx as goods not delivered. I read that AmEx gave merchants 7 days (I seem to recall reading) to dispute the chargeback. They didn't.
Too many people wait too long and lose certain protections and rights.