Crypto Dabble.

edited 13 September 2021 at 7:14PM in Savings & Investments
257 replies 11.7K views
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  • YellowDuc said:
    First post on MSE but just can't resist To reply when I read the word Ponzi.

    Good way to compare the market cap tbh but please don't call bitcoin a ponzi cause you don't understand crypto and you don't use it in your daily life.


    100% . For the people of El Salvador BTC and the lightning network has been life changing. Thanks to the lightning work, people can now send bitcoin instantly with ZERO fees across entire continents. No other payment gateway has been able to do that. 

    Bitcoin absolutely isnt going to zero! 

    It makes me facepalm a lot reading this thread as there are so many boomer dinosaurs who think they know best and don't bother to do any research into anything new that may confuse them.

    It will be very, very interesting to revisit this thread in 2024/2025 and see who was right + what other countries have adopted it. 
    You know what would really be life changing for El Salvador? Not having the world's highest murder rate.
    But I'm sure they really appreciate being able to send and receive BTC instantly across entire continents for free, which they obviously can't do with fiat money because no such services exist that allow people to send money to each other without incurring transaction costs, like physical cash, or bank transfers...
  • AdyinvestmentAdyinvestment Forumite
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    tebbins said:

    Bitcoin is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it, the ONLY way to make a profit, literally by definition the only mathematically possible way if is someone else is willing to buy it off you for more later on.

    Exactly the same as all growth stocks and shares such as Apple/Tesla and so on.

    However, with Bitcoin it is possible to earn around 5-10% yield (similar to a dividend payout) on top if you want.
  • tebbins said:

    Bitcoin is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it, the ONLY way to make a profit, literally by definition the only mathematically possible way if is someone else is willing to buy it off you for more later on.

    Exactly the same as all growth stocks and shares such as Apple/Tesla and so on.

    However, with Bitcoin it is possible to earn around 5-10% yield (similar to a dividend payout) on top if you want.
    Those companies, however much speculation has factored into their share price growth, still actually do something, they generate earnings, and one of them is (debatably, and debatably well) actively trying to help against climate change unlike Cryptocurrencies which are among the most carbon-intensive assets ever conceived in the history of capitalism.
  • AdyinvestmentAdyinvestment Forumite
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    tebbins said:

    Those companies, however much speculation has factored into their share price growth, still actually do something, they generate earnings, and one of them is (debatably, and debatably well) actively trying to help against climate change unlike Cryptocurrencies which are among the most carbon-intensive assets ever conceived in the history of capitalism.
    That has nothing to do with what you said, you stated "the only mathematically possible way if is someone else is willing to buy it off you for more later on"
  • tebbins said:

    Those companies, however much speculation has factored into their share price growth, still actually do something, they generate earnings, and one of them is (debatably, and debatably well) actively trying to help against climate change unlike Cryptocurrencies which are among the most carbon-intensive assets ever conceived in the history of capitalism.
    That has nothing to do with what you said, you stated "the only mathematically possible way if is someone else is willing to buy it off you for more later on"
    Because that is all it worth. A company is worth the present value of its future cash flows discounted at the risk-free rate of return. You can get different prices all the time but that's how owning businesses works.
    Bitcoin is worth... Whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
  • AdyinvestmentAdyinvestment Forumite
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    tebbins said:

     A company is worth the present value of its future cash flows discounted at the risk-free rate of return.
    No, a company is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, how you value a company is likely to be completely different to how I would value a company. If there is a market crash tomorrow and Tesla shares drop 40% overnight how has that changed todays future cash flows?

    I could have also chosen some environmentally terrible coal producing company, or a research and development company sinking in debt, the company does not matter I was merely trying to point out that your argument could be used against growth stocks/shares (even if you have more information to go on), and also there are other ways to make profit on Bitcoin.
  • Of course someone who posts almost exclusively about crypto and states misguided opinions as certain facts would know all about that.
  • edited 28 September 2021 at 2:53PM
    darren232002darren232002 Forumite
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    edited 28 September 2021 at 2:53PM
    Hansplace said:

    Even though the crypto marketcap is $1.94 trillion but I have yet to use a single thing in my life related to crypto yet today or since 2000s when bitcoin was born.

    The purpose of Bitcoin is exceedingly simple; it is to send economic value generated in the present day in to the future with the minimum amount of drag (loss of purchasing power) possible.

    That is to say, that Bitcoins purpose is simply to not do anything. Humans have long sought ways to store their present value in a way that can be sent, and used, in the future. The qualities needed for this are fairly obvious; durability, scarcity, etc. People intuitively understand that if your business was in selling banana's, that storing your wealth in bananas would not be a good strategy. Pacific Islanders used large quarried stones, which was great when these were hard to procure; but their monetary system collapsed when the modern world brought their technology (dynamite, better shipping) to them. There are countless stories of this throughout history. Eventually, we settled on gold for a whole host of reasons. The bottom line is whether you believe that Bitcoins network can objectively enforce digital scarcity (ie. There will only ever be 21m produced). If the answer to this is 'yes,' then Bitcoin is better than gold across all metrics and is therefore the best way to send present day value in to the future. It should also be fairly self evident as to why using cash or a savings account is a colossally terrible way to achieve the stated aims above.

    I have stated this before and I believe it needs restating, Bitcoin is not a currency and so using currency or payment metrics to value it is an analysis from a flawed starting point. 
    YellowDuc said:
    edit: I'm not saying put all your life savings into it (nor have I done that either) - but it's baffling if you wouldn't allocate some part of your portfolio towards crypto. 
    Each to their own, but I have > 90% of my networth in crypto assets, mainly Bitcoin. 
  • edited 28 September 2021 at 3:01PM
    darren232002darren232002 Forumite
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    edited 28 September 2021 at 3:01PM
    tebbins said:

    You know what would really be life changing for El Salvador? Not having the world's highest murder rate.
    But I'm sure they really appreciate being able to send and receive BTC instantly across entire continents for free, which they obviously can't do with fiat money because no such services exist that allow people to send money to each other without incurring transaction costs, like physical cash, or bank transfers...
    This is coming from a place of privilege. Not everyone in the world has access to the options you do.

    You know what might fix the murder rate? An open and free financial system, based on an asset that isnt debased by an external government leading to people consistently having to work in order to keep their heads above water.

    Please tell me how I can transfer physical cash or use a bank to transfer money internationally with zero fees. Taking cash across a border is a recipe for disaster. Legally, you are allowed to take whatever amount you want across a border so long as it is yours and attained via legal means. That said, I've had many friends try to do just that only to have it confiscated and then face a 1 or 2 year legal battle just to have it returned. All because the border official didn't believe their story, whether that was reasonable or not. Bank transfers across boundaries aren't free in the legacy financial system; its the entire raison d'etre for most of the challenger banks. 
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