Right to cancel order of lithium batteries bought online

SimonABA

mattyprice4004 said:

I may be missing the point, but why not just return with Hermes and declare that it's not a battery? 
I can't see that having any material impact on anything. 

Because that is dishonest and against the law and would leave me open to prosecution and having the battery destroyed before being delivered.   

Dangerous goods are called dangerous goods for a reason: it is because they are dangerous.   Lithium batteries can spontaneously catch fire or even explode if they are not packed correctly.   That's why the law requires an approved "Dangerous Goods Safety Advisor" declare that dangerous goods are packed and handled as per regulations.    How would you feel if I had taken your advice and had lied and as a result Hermes had not taken the appropriate precautions which then caused a fire or explosion in the van on the motorway which in turn had led to a fatal accident?

But yes you are missing the point, which is that if you want to buy a battery online, think carefully about how you might return it should you need to before placing the order.   It might save you a lot of bother

SimonABA

Manxman_in_exile said:

Isn't the OP saying they could not do that because it's against the law?  Are you suggesting they lie?   

Yes it is against the law and in fact the seller, BattPit, via Amazon, told me to lie too and to say it was a "notebook accessory" rather than a "battery".   I tried that with Hermes but you then have to sign a declaration saying the package does not include any in the list of prohibited items which explicitly includes "batteries" and that I could not do.  

neilmcl

pinkshoes said:

Firstly, it has always been the case that couriers won't take batteries, long before Brexit.

SimonABA said:

I wrote to the government’s Citizen Advice Consumer Service (CACS), the front door to Trading Standards, who advised that you are still entitled to a full refund where it is not possible to return the goods.  

Secondly, the above is only correct if the goods are FAULTY. In which case the seller needs to provide return postage or collect the goods then refund.

If you have changed your mind (it doesn't say in your post whether you changed your mind or the battery was faulty) then it is up to the consumer to return the item. Rather than having the cost deducted from the refund, did you offer to pay separately if they then booked a courier?

That's not wholly correct I'm afraid. Under the CCRs the seller must provide information regarding costs and therefore the means of returning items where the item cannot normally be returned by post.

MarvinDay

neilmcl said:

New Lithium batteries can be sent in the mail as long as they have the appropriate marking on the package.

Not by personal customers:

Batteries including those sent with/without or connected to an electronic device

Batteries not connected to, not installed or not posted with the equipment / device it is intended to power >>

Batteries that are classified as dangerous goods by the latest edition of the Technical Instructions for Safe Transport of Dangerous Goods by Air published by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) including wet spillable lead acid/ lead alkaline batteries (such as car batteries), lithium batteries when not sent with or contained in equipment, used alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd) and zinc-air batteries, and damaged batteries of any type. Please note this includes power banks.

• International  - Not allowed in the mail
• UK - Not allowed in the mail

I'm not allowed to post the link to the Royal mail website.

SimonABA

MarvinDay said:

neilmcl said:

New Lithium batteries can be sent in the mail as long as they have the appropriate marking on the package.

Not by personal customers:

Batteries including those sent with/without or connected to an electronic device

Batteries not connected to, not installed or not posted with the equipment / device it is intended to power >>

Batteries that are classified as dangerous goods by the latest edition of the Technical Instructions for Safe Transport of Dangerous Goods by Air published by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) including wet spillable lead acid/ lead alkaline batteries (such as car batteries), lithium batteries when not sent with or contained in equipment, used alkaline metal, nickel metal hydride (NiMH), nickel cadmium (NiCd) and zinc-air batteries, and damaged batteries of any type. Please note this includes power banks.

• International  - Not allowed in the mail
• UK - Not allowed in the mail

I'm not allowed to post the link to the Royal mail website.

Royal Mail's list of prohibited items includes "Batteries, specifically new and used lithium batteries when not sent with or connected to an electronic device (Including power banks) "

They also say "Failure to comply with these controls could result in prosecution."    

Just google "royal mail prohibited and restricted items leaflet"

gettingtheresometime

I seem to recall UPS accepted a parcel containing an item with a lithium battery

MarvinDay

gettingtheresometime said:

I seem to recall UPS accepted a parcel containing an item with a lithium battery

Sending an package containing a lithium battery in domestic UK mail or with some couriers  is normally fine provided that:
1/ The battery is in good condition and not damaged or faulty,
2/ The battery or batteries are installed in equipment or are spares to power it,
3/ the guidelines for the number of spares, their power and their weight is adhered to and
4/ the package is correctly marked and labelled according to the requirements of the shipping company.

SimonABA

gettingtheresometime said:

I seem to recall UPS accepted a parcel containing an item with a lithium battery

UPS says:

The following articles are prohibited from shipment to all countries served by UPS:

·       Dangerous goods/Hazardous materials (following IATA regulations for Express and Expedited, and following ADR regulations for Standard)

ADR regulations prohibit the transport of Lithium batteries:

SimonABA

MarvinDay said:

gettingtheresometime said:

I seem to recall UPS accepted a parcel containing an item with a lithium battery

Sending an package containing a lithium battery in domestic UK mail or with some couriers  is normally fine provided that:
1/ The battery is in good condition and not damaged or faulty,
2/ The battery or batteries are installed in equipment or are spares to power it,
3/ the guidelines for the number of spares, their power and their weight is adhered to and
4/ the package is correctly marked and labelled according to the requirements of the shipping company.

Yup perfectly fine, apart from being illegal, dangerous, irresponsible and impossible to find a courier or postal service that will accept a lithium battery unless you lie by saying it's not a battery and so risk prosecution and having the battery destroyed.

OK it is legal to send a lithium battery installed in equipment but that is not really relevant to this thread which is to warn people of the difficulty of returning a standalone battery.

I presume you've never actually posted or sent a standalone battery.  If I'm wrong please let me know who accepted it.

Undervalued

SimonABA said:

MarvinDay said:

gettingtheresometime said:

I seem to recall UPS accepted a parcel containing an item with a lithium battery

Sending an package containing a lithium battery in domestic UK mail or with some couriers  is normally fine provided that:
1/ The battery is in good condition and not damaged or faulty,
2/ The battery or batteries are installed in equipment or are spares to power it,
3/ the guidelines for the number of spares, their power and their weight is adhered to and
4/ the package is correctly marked and labelled according to the requirements of the shipping company.

Yup perfectly fine, apart from being illegal, dangerous, irresponsible and impossible to find a courier or postal service that will accept a lithium battery unless you lie by saying it's not a battery and so risk prosecution and having the battery destroyed.

OK it is legal to send a lithium battery installed in equipment but that is not really relevant to this thread which is to warn people of the difficulty of returning a standalone battery.

I presume you've never actually posted or sent a standalone battery.  If I'm wrong please let me know who accepted it.

I buy quite a few such batteries and as far as I know the suppliers are only able to "ship" them by having a special arrangement with a particular courier firm. That covers how they are packed, labelled etc.

I have been told conflicting stories about whether they are able to arrange collection by the same firm. Some say yes, other no because they cannot confirm that they have be packed and labelled correctly.

So if your supplier says "no" then you reach an interesting catch 22. You have a right to return them and under some circumstances get the shipping costs refunded. However, as I understand it, you cannot force the supplier to arrange this leaving you with the difficulty of finding somebody who will carry them or even delivering them yourself.

Sadly I suspect your supplier knows this and is exploiting the loophole. They will no doubt argue that they are not breaching your consumer rights as they only have to provide a refund once you send them back. Yes, they may have to pay the reasonable cost but they are not obliged to arrange it.

I will be very interested to learn how this resolves.

Not much help I'm afraid!