Right to cancel order of lithium batteries bought online

SimonABA

If anyone has had problems cancelling an order for a battery bought online, then you might be interested in my experience:

I recently ran into difficulties when I tried to exercise my right to cancel an order after I ordered a new laptop battery on Amazon Marketplace.  The seller, BattPit aka Win Eternal Tech Ltd, agreed to give me a refund once I had returned it.   That was when my problems started.

No courier would accept it as Lithium batteries are classed as Dangerous Goods under

The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2009, which puts into UK law European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR) 2017.   Basically that and a post-Brexit derogation, means it is permitted for a business to send or arrange collection of a battery but it is illegal for a consumer to do so.   The CEO of Hermes who delivered the battery to me, kindly confirmed this.  

The correct procedure for returning batteries bought online is therefore for the seller to arrange collection and to deduct the cost of return from the refund where appropriate.

In my case the seller refused to arrange collection or give me a refund thus denying my right to cancel the order.   

Amazon’s A-Z guarantee scheme covers the situation where an item is returned but seller then refuses to refund.   It does not explicitly cover the case where it cannot be returned and so my initial claim got rejected.   After a lot of arguing and law quoting, Amazon did refund me.  Had I bought the battery directly from the seller then I would still be out of pocket.

I wrote to the government’s Citizen Advice Consumer Service (CACS), the front door to Trading Standards, who advised that you are still entitled to a full refund where it is not possible to return the goods.  

I’ve noticed that most other online battery stores seem unaware of all this and therefore anyone buying from them might run into the same issues as me.  I advise anyone wanting buy a battery online to ask the seller beforehand what would happen if you wanted to cancel the order and then check that it is possible.

born_again

SimonABA said:

If anyone has had problems cancelling an order for a battery bought online, then you might be interested in my experience:

I recently ran into difficulties when I tried to exercise my right to cancel an order after I ordered a new laptop battery on Amazon Marketplace.  The seller, BattPit aka Win Eternal Tech Ltd, agreed to give me a refund once I had returned it.   That was when my problems started.

No courier would accept it as Lithium batteries are classed as Dangerous Goods under

The Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2009, which puts into UK law European Agreement concerning the International Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road (ADR) 2017.   Basically that and a post-Brexit derogation, means it is permitted for a business to send or arrange collection of a battery but it is illegal for a consumer to do so.   The CEO of Hermes who delivered the battery to me, kindly confirmed this.  

The correct procedure for returning batteries bought online is therefore for the seller to arrange collection and to deduct the cost of return from the refund where appropriate.

In my case the seller refused to arrange collection or give me a refund thus denying my right to cancel the order.   

Amazon’s A-Z guarantee scheme covers the situation where an item is returned but seller then refuses to refund.   It does not explicitly cover the case where it cannot be returned and so my initial claim got rejected.   After a lot of arguing and law quoting, Amazon did refund me.  Had I bought the battery directly from the seller then I would still be out of pocket.

I wrote to the government’s Citizen Advice Consumer Service (CACS), the front door to Trading Standards, who advised that you are still entitled to a full refund where it is not possible to return the goods.  

I’ve noticed that most other online battery stores seem unaware of all this and therefore anyone buying from them might run into the same issues as me.  I advise anyone wanting buy a battery online to ask the seller beforehand what would happen if you wanted to cancel the order and then check that it is possible.

I know they are struggling for drivers... But the CEO delivering goods.. 👀

pinkshoes

Firstly, it has always been the case that couriers won't take batteries, long before Brexit.

SimonABA said:

I wrote to the government’s Citizen Advice Consumer Service (CACS), the front door to Trading Standards, who advised that you are still entitled to a full refund where it is not possible to return the goods.  

Secondly, the above is only correct if the goods are FAULTY. In which case the seller needs to provide return postage or collect the goods then refund.

If you have changed your mind (it doesn't say in your post whether you changed your mind or the battery was faulty) then it is up to the consumer to return the item. Rather than having the cost deducted from the refund, did you offer to pay separately if they then booked a courier?

Bradden

Is the seller based in the UK? If not then you are possibly not covered under uk law.

SimonABA

LOL - It was Hermes that delivered it, but I wrote the the CEO to ask how I could return it when the Hermes App made me declare it was not a battery which obviously I could not do, and the Hermes customer support options would not let me ask that question.   I got a very quick and helpful response from the CEO's office.   

SimonABA

Bradden said:

Is the seller based in the UK? If not then you are possibly not covered under uk law.

Seller is in UK and so is covered under UK law

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35/made

Return of goods in the event of cancellation

35.—(1) Where a sales contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1), it is the trader’s responsibility to collect the goods if—

(a)the trader has offered to collect them, or

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, the goods were delivered to the consumer’s home when the contract was entered into and could not, by their nature, normally be returned by post.

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2/made

(m)where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;

Seems the trader should be collecting the goods to me and bear the cost if they didn't advise via durable means what the cost of return would be. 

SimonABA

pinkshoes said:

Firstly, it has always been the case that couriers won't take batteries, long before Brexit.

SimonABA said:

I wrote to the government’s Citizen Advice Consumer Service (CACS), the front door to Trading Standards, who advised that you are still entitled to a full refund where it is not possible to return the goods.  

Secondly, the above is only correct if the goods are FAULTY. In which case the seller needs to provide return postage or collect the goods then refund.

If you have changed your mind (it doesn't say in your post whether you changed your mind or the battery was faulty) then it is up to the consumer to return the item. Rather than having the cost deducted from the refund, did you offer to pay separately if they then booked a courier?

Firstly, it has always been the case that couriers won't take batteries, long before Brexit.   Indeed, the post-Brexit derogation now allow business to arrange the collection.   The difficulty is when the seller refuses to do so.

Secondly, the above is only correct if the goods are FAULTY. In which case the seller needs to provide return postage or collect the goods then refund.    No that is not quite the case for dangerous goods, eg batteries, as they cannot be posted.   In my case the goods were not faulty, I simply changed my mind as I am allowed to do.   However in that circumstance where it is not possible for me to return them and the seller refuses to collect them (albeit at my expense) then I am entitled to a full refund.

SimonABA

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/35/made

Return of goods in the event of cancellation

35.—(1) Where a sales contract is cancelled under regulation 29(1), it is the trader’s responsibility to collect the goods if—

(a)the trader has offered to collect them, or

(b)in the case of an off-premises contract, the goods were delivered to the consumer’s home when the contract was entered into and could not, by their nature, normally be returned by post.

(5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—

(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or

(b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2/made

(m)where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;

Seems the trader should be collecting the goods to me and bear the cost if they didn't advise via durable means what the cost of return would be. 

I would agree and have made a written complaint to Amazon that they should warn customers that a batteries are classed as dangerous goods and as such are difficult to return.   It is ‘material information’ which if omitted would be a breach of section 6 of The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 – omission of material information

mattyprice4004

I may be missing the point, but why not just return with Hermes and declare that it's not a battery? 
I can't see that having any material impact on anything. 

Manxman_in_exile

Isn't the OP saying they could not do that because it's against the law?  Are you suggesting they lie?