Concern for old friend

BooJewels

I'm an Attorney for 2 elderly family members and have done others beforehand too.  One of the ones I currently look after appears to be totally sound of mind on any day - in fact, anyone would say she was in very fine fettle for 90 and would guess her age as much younger.  She's in good health, drives and is totally independent.

But, perfectly lucidly, she'll tell you something one day and the following day (or even within the same conversation) will completely change direction and contradict herself entirely.  She's completely forgotten some very important conversations we've had and decisions she made and asked me to act on for her and totally denies that we even spoke about it - even denying we even spoke or saw each other on that particular occasion. And somehow manages to turn it around to you being in the wrong.

Yet, each conversation in isolation is perfectly sensible - there's absolutely no outward manifestation of her going 'a bit dotty' or being forgetful.  So it could just be that your friend is similar - seems perfectly lucid, but might tell you a different tale on another occasion.

As others have recommended, I would also suggest that you speak to family before you do anything further - I suspect there's maybe more to it than your friend is leading you to believe.

elsien

It is possible that your friend is not remembering some important conversations.
But it is also possible that his family are not acting in his best interests - it does happen, and I have seen situations where family members have stolen large sums of money running into may thousands.
My view would be to try to check with family by all means, if you and he feel that is appropriate, but there are other avenues that he can also explore if he wishes to do so. 

tooldle

"I am chatting to another friend who has known him for 30 years or more and he has spoken to the children, they have not answered. One of them arrived while he was with the chap and they immediately went on about POA. the friend asked what the hell do you need that for, and there was no response.

I have explained above about the bank details.

I also find it funny that the odd book is trickling back to him now... but not his most treasured items, his diaries. If they have been disposed of, it says everything in my eyes! I still have my grandfather's diaries and they are not a patch on his, of which sadly, I cannot divulge here! "

So, on the face of it there seems some evidence to say a relative has PoA. With a parent in a Care Home myself, this is absolutely necessary and the correct way to approach matters. What an uninformed bystander may think, is neither here or there.

If your friend requires his diaries, why not ask for them to be brought to him? It is possible the adult children are not aware of their fathers diaries, or indeed of the diaries importance to him at this specific time.  Equally this may well be an obsession that is here today and gone tomorrow. My mum had many of these. She would absolutely need something, or believe something for weeks on end, and then suddenly it was gone, never to be mentioned again. With mum it was knitting. I was buying wool like it was going out of fashion and then suddenly it stopped. Thankfully this brought to an end the need to dispose of odd shaped garments. My daughter had many a photo taken whilst wearing one of Grandma's creations, but it was the only way to reassure her that her works had reached a recipient.

BooJewels

elsien said:

But it is also possible that his family are not acting in his best interests - it does happen, and I have seen situations where family members have stolen large sums of money running into may thousands.

Indeed, it certainly does happen. When my Dad was in a care home, one of his neighbours lost everything through family emptying her accounts using the LPA - then the fees stopped being paid.  I was there for a meeting one day when the Police arrived to interview her.  It's totally shameful.

tooldle

BooJewels said:

elsien said:

But it is also possible that his family are not acting in his best interests - it does happen, and I have seen situations where family members have stolen large sums of money running into may thousands.

Indeed, it certainly does happen. When my Dad was in a care home, one of his neighbours lost everything through family emptying her accounts using the LPA - then the fees stopped being paid.  I was there for a meeting one day when the Police arrived to interview her.  It's totally shameful.

Sadly it does happen. Been there and got the T-shirt. A bad apple in every barrel i suppose.
An old school friend of mine was until recently the owner of a Care Home. Having chatted to him about these issues, I was astounded as to how many avenues some relatives will try to get their hands on the residents cash. Care Home managers are usually very clued up on this and will flag 'abuses'.

Gavin83

I fail to see what benefits the children get from placing him into a care home. It’ll need to be paid and this is the easiest way to get any theft of money highlighted by the appropriate authorities. If they wanted money they’d be considerably better off keeping him in his own house.

badmemory

Get him in a care home - sell the house - drain all his savings.  No money left, the LA will have to pay & they have the lot! 

No one seems to have any oversight.  Even with a power of attorney it is down to you to be honest.

I had POA.  I could have drained her accounts before she died & stolen lots from my sister.  I doubt that she would have even noticed £50k  even if I had given some figures to account.  I didn't, but I like to live with myself.  I also used to give my sister monthly updates.  Not everyone seems to feel that way though.  Unfortunately!

Gavin83

badmemory said:

Get him in a care home - sell the house - drain all his savings.  No money left, the LA will have to pay & they have the lot!  

That’s not how it works. I guess some people don’t appreciate this though.

Pollycat

Gavin83 said:

badmemory said:

Get him in a care home - sell the house - drain all his savings.  No money left, the LA will have to pay & they have the lot!  

That’s not how it works. I guess some people don’t appreciate this though.

Yes.
And it's certainly not as simple as saying 'get him in a care home', especially when you (the family) expect the LA to pick up the bill.

TBagpuss

OP, I agree that its possible he is less on the ball than you think, the family may have discussed and agreed things with him and he has forgotten, and it's possible that they have acted in what they see as his best interests  even of they have moved a bot fast for him.

It's also possible that something is amiss.

Ideally, talk to the the children and / or talk to the nursing home or the doctor - they won't be able  to go into any detail about his medical records / capacity etc. without his permission but they may be able to keep an eye out, or they may be able to reassure you without disclosing details.

If you think that they are not acting in his best interests then you could ask him whether he wants you to arrange for a solicitor to visit him - if he hasn't given POA to his children he could, if he has capacity, give it to someone else - such as his solicitor, a trusted friend . And if he has given it to his children and no longer want s them to acct then he can if he has capacity, revoke the grant. 

However, do tread carefully - if the realty is that he is not going to recover to the point where he can return to this house then aiming to sell it asap may well be in his financial best interests , and more to do with a child who is trying to do the best for their father but misjudging  exactly what is best