Concern for old friend

tooldle

Responding to your comments on PoA it is a relatively simple process and does take time. All in all it was about three months for mum. The attorney must act in the best interests of the donor (in this case your friend). 
If the house needs to be sold to finance care and your friend is limited in the number of possessions his room can accommodate, what reasonably are you expecting the family to do with his excess possessions? I have disposed of my mum’s possessions and PoA certainly places no requirement on me to preserve items which mum no longer uses or needs. 

theoretica

I wonder if the charity Age UK have useful advice - seems worth asking them.

Grumpy_chap

tooldle said:

Having gone straight from hospital to care home, might there have been a social worker involved? 

This is how I understood the process worked.  I am glad you have confirmed the same indication.  The OP says, however, there is no social worker involved.

elsien

Grumpy_chap said:

tooldle said:

Having gone straight from hospital to care home, might there have been a social worker involved? 

This is how I understood the process worked.  I am glad you have confirmed the same indication.  The OP says, however, there is no social worker involved.

If they’ve been discharged into a health bed, there won’t be a social worker until potentially later on in the process, if at all. 

Manxman_in_exile

Thewanted said:

...His house has been cleared, he was given very little in personal belongings, we suspect these being taken by a third party, and he was initially denied access to his bank account. ... as he thinks his kids have moved quickly for his own good without thinking about his feelings... I feel otherwise especially when I hear personal belongings have 'disappeared without his consent!

We are not sure if his children have power of attorney, but if they have acquired it, he doesn't know how they got it because he has not consented to any of this!...

I appreciate that this is easier for me to say than it might be for you to do, but why don't you ask his children?  Is it they whom you suspect of making his personal belongings vanish?  I'm sure you could come up with some innocently convincing questions to ask them "as a concerned friend of their father" without necessarily rocking the boat for him.  Just ask what's happening.  If you don't like what they tell you - and they might justifiably tell you to mind your own business - then consider alerting social services to your concerns.  If you want to get a lawyer involved bear in mind you might end up having to pay for them yourself...

As a former NHS manager myself I find it very hard to believe that he would simply be discharged from hospital into a care home without good reason* and without his family, or his chosen next of kin, being given an explanation.  (Let's not go into the significance or otherwise of being "NoK" in this thread.

What do you mean by "he was initially denied access to his bank account"?  Do you mean he now has full access to it?  How did he try to access it and why was he denied?


*As another poster has already suggested, it's quite possible that your friend is not as healthy (either physically or mentally) as you think.  If he is "naive" - as you suggest - or was at all confused in hospital, they may have decided he needs further assessment in some sort of controlled environment.  It's almost 100% certain that you won't get any answers to your questions from the hospital, social services or the care home.  You need to ask his children what is happening.  (Is there nobody else apart from his children who knows him and you could ask?)

Marcon

Thewanted said:

Hi folks, I want to keep this simple as I am concerned with too much info the wrong people could possibly see this.

So, an old, frail friend has recently ended up in hospital. He was caring for himself and had a fall. After being discharged with next to no injuries, they have been put straight into a care home with no consultation. It gets worse though. His house has been cleared, he was given very little in personal belongings, we suspect these being taken by a third party, and he was initially denied access to his bank account. This is all from someone who is quite sound of mind, but a little bit naive. What's worse is his house is currently on the market. He contacted the agent to ask why, and he promised to remove from the market but has not yet done so.

For me, this is a solicitor/police matter but he doesn't want to get anyone in trouble, as he thinks his kids have moved quickly for his own good without thinking about his feelings... I feel otherwise especially when I hear personal belongings have 'disappeared without his consent!

We are not sure if his children have power of attorney, but if they have acquired it, he doesn't know how they got it because he has not consented to any of this!

So, clearly, he needs professional advice/help.

Do you think you might be placing a little too much reliance on what he is saying and possibly he is more confused than you have realised?

It may be a solicitor/police matter to you, but surely your next step is to talk to his children, not worry about what they might or might not think (and I doubt they are trawling the internet to see if anyone is posting about their father and their actions). They are likely to worry a lot more if you intervene in something where all is actually perfectly in order, but just being misrepresented by an innocent old gentleman who may have suffered more from his fall and change of accommodation than is apparent.

tooldle

elsien said:

Grumpy_chap said:

tooldle said:

Having gone straight from hospital to care home, might there have been a social worker involved? 

This is how I understood the process worked.  I am glad you have confirmed the same indication.  The OP says, however, there is no social worker involved.

If they’ve been discharged into a health bed, there won’t be a social worker until potentially later on in the process, if at all. 

Elsien makes a good point. Is your friend in a Care Home, or a Nursing Home?

Thewanted

nanapop1977 said:

Who is currently funding his care?

If he's self-funding (i.e has assets of over £23250), presumably his property might need to be sold to fund this long term (whether his family has the legal authority to do this in his best interests is another matter).

If the LA is funding his care home fees, I'm sure they have assessed this as the most suitable care to meet his needs, taking into account his mental capacity and physical frailty. In the current climate particularly, this decision wouldn't have been taken lightly. 

Why couldn't this gentleman access his bank account?

As others have suggested, a chat with the care home manager (with yourself present if he wishes) might clarify what the situation is.

Sadly he sits on quite a considerable sum of money. His eldest withdrew all his account details. Not sure how things have been funded for now, maybe from his savings? Of course, I understand everything will need to be paid for, but it's just the fact, again, he has not been consulted and he is, from what I can see, the sound of mind!

elsien

So use the link I posted to check whether or not there is a power of attorney or deputyship in place. 

Thewanted

Manxman_in_exile said:

Thewanted said:

...His house has been cleared, he was given very little in personal belongings, we suspect these being taken by a third party, and he was initially denied access to his bank account. ... as he thinks his kids have moved quickly for his own good without thinking about his feelings... I feel otherwise especially when I hear personal belongings have 'disappeared without his consent!

We are not sure if his children have power of attorney, but if they have acquired it, he doesn't know how they got it because he has not consented to any of this!...

I appreciate that this is easier for me to say than it might be for you to do, but why don't you ask his children?  Is it they whom you suspect of making his personal belongings vanish?  I'm sure you could come up with some innocently convincing questions to ask them "as a concerned friend of their father" without necessarily rocking the boat for him.  Just ask what's happening.  If you don't like what they tell you - and they might justifiably tell you to mind your own business - then consider alerting social services to your concerns.  If you want to get a lawyer involved bear in mind you might end up having to pay for them yourself...

As a former NHS manager myself I find it very hard to believe that he would simply be discharged from hospital into a care home without good reason* and without his family, or his chosen next of kin, being given an explanation.  (Let's not go into the significance or otherwise of being "NoK" in this thread.

What do you mean by "he was initially denied access to his bank account"?  Do you mean he now has full access to it?  How did he try to access it and why was he denied?


*As another poster has already suggested, it's quite possible that your friend is not as healthy (either physically or mentally) as you think.  If he is "naive" - as you suggest - or was at all confused in hospital, they may have decided he needs further assessment in some sort of controlled environment.  It's almost 100% certain that you won't get any answers to your questions from the hospital, social services or the care home.  You need to ask his children what is happening.  (Is there nobody else apart from his children who knows him and you could ask?)

I am chatting to another friend who has known him for 30 years or more and he has spoken to the children, they have not answered. One of them arrived while he was with the chap and they immediately went on about POA. the friend asked what the hell do you need that for, and there was no response.

I have explained above about the bank details.

I also find it funny that the odd book is trickling back to him now... but not his most treasured items, his diaries. If they have been disposed of, it says everything in my eyes! I still have my grandfather's diaries and they are not a patch on his, of which sadly, I cannot divulge here!