Concern for old friend

Thewanted

Hi folks, I want to keep this simple as I am concerned with too much info the wrong people could possibly see this.

So, an old, frail friend has recently ended up in hospital. He was caring for himself and had a fall. After being discharged with next to no injuries, they have been put straight into a care home with no consultation. It gets worse though. His house has been cleared, he was given very little in personal belongings, we suspect these being taken by a third party, and he was initially denied access to his bank account. This is all from someone who is quite sound of mind, but a little bit naive. What's worse is his house is currently on the market. He contacted the agent to ask why, and he promised to remove from the market but has not yet done so.

For me, this is a solicitor/police matter but he doesn't want to get anyone in trouble, as he thinks his kids have moved quickly for his own good without thinking about his feelings... I feel otherwise especially when I hear personal belongings have 'disappeared without his consent!

We are not sure if his children have power of attorney, but if they have acquired it, he doesn't know how they got it because he has not consented to any of this!

So, clearly, he needs professional advice/help.

I can see a couple of options, but at the moment, whatever these are, he needs assurance that one thing will not lead to another and before he knows it he is out of control and potentially in a worse position than he already is...

Would care support services for older people be a good idea? Social services? Some advice would be appreciated please, it is quite distressing seeing this wonderful person treated with so little regard to his personal freedom!

Thank you.

xylophone

It seems to me that he should see a solicitor.

It may well be possible for a visit to the home to be arranged.

https://sfe.legal/   Does this help at all?

Keep_pedalling

Had he given his children power of attorney? 

thegreenone

Could you find the details for your friend to contact the Office of Public Guardian to find out whether a POA is in place?  It sounds unlikely as there is quite a process to follow and if your friend is of sound mind, he would know.  In which case the house cannot be sold.  He definitely needs a solicitor.  

Sea_Shell

I'm sure I'd read of a case on here whereby it was alleged that a PoA was able to be granted, as a form was completed stating that the donor was "unable to make a mark" (sign it).

Seemed a massive loophole to me at the time.

Let's hope in this instance that's not the case.

Grumpy_chap

Thewanted said:

Hi folks, I want to keep this simple as I am concerned with too much info the wrong people could possibly see this.

So, an old, frail friend has recently ended up in hospital. He was caring for himself and had a fall. After being discharged with next to no injuries, they have been put straight into a care home with no consultation. It gets worse though. His house has been cleared, he was given very little in personal belongings, we suspect these being taken by a third party, and he was initially denied access to his bank account. This is all from someone who is quite sound of mind, but a little bit naive. What's worse is his house is currently on the market. He contacted the agent to ask why, and he promised to remove from the market but has not yet done so.

For me, this is a solicitor/police matter but he doesn't want to get anyone in trouble, as he thinks his kids have moved quickly for his own good without thinking about his feelings... I feel otherwise especially when I hear personal belongings have 'disappeared without his consent!

We are not sure if his children have power of attorney, but if they have acquired it, he doesn't know how they got it because he has not consented to any of this!

So, clearly, he needs professional advice/help.

I can see a couple of options, but at the moment, whatever these are, he needs assurance that one thing will not lead to another and before he knows it he is out of control and potentially in a worse position than he already is...

Would care support services for older people be a good idea? Social services? Some advice would be appreciated please, it is quite distressing seeing this wonderful person treated with so little regard to his personal freedom!

Thank you.

In cases like this, it is quite common to have a discussion with a social worker between hospital and care home and / or at the care home.  That might be a good source of support.

Being vulnerable (frail) but of sound mind, your friend should keep his own affairs.  

One single fall as an isolated event does not warrant moving into a care home.

Thewanted

According to a colleague, it is very easy to get the simplest forms of PoA, and that includes control of assets, but it does not mean the family can spend money on anything they like!
Also, PoA does not give a family the right to throw items away that still belong to the person involved!
It needs a professional who knows this side of the law well to visit him, and effectively guide him through everything without limiting how long he can pay for accommodation in a reasonable home (I have stated he should look for a more suitable home as that is his basic right!).

Is there an issue with social services care for the elderly?

Thewanted

Grumpy_chap said:

Thewanted said:

Hi folks, I want to keep this simple as I am concerned with too much info the wrong people could possibly see this.

So, an old, frail friend has recently ended up in hospital. He was caring for himself and had a fall. After being discharged with next to no injuries, they have been put straight into a care home with no consultation. It gets worse though. His house has been cleared, he was given very little in personal belongings, we suspect these being taken by a third party, and he was initially denied access to his bank account. This is all from someone who is quite sound of mind, but a little bit naive. What's worse is his house is currently on the market. He contacted the agent to ask why, and he promised to remove from the market but has not yet done so.

For me, this is a solicitor/police matter but he doesn't want to get anyone in trouble, as he thinks his kids have moved quickly for his own good without thinking about his feelings... I feel otherwise especially when I hear personal belongings have 'disappeared without his consent!

We are not sure if his children have power of attorney, but if they have acquired it, he doesn't know how they got it because he has not consented to any of this!

So, clearly, he needs professional advice/help.

I can see a couple of options, but at the moment, whatever these are, he needs assurance that one thing will not lead to another and before he knows it he is out of control and potentially in a worse position than he already is...

Would care support services for older people be a good idea? Social services? Some advice would be appreciated please, it is quite distressing seeing this wonderful person treated with so little regard to his personal freedom!

Thank you.

In cases like this, it is quite common to have a discussion with a social worker between hospital and care home and / or at the care home.  That might be a good source of support.

Being vulnerable (frail) but of sound mind, your friend should keep his own affairs.  

One single fall as an isolated event does not warrant moving into a care home.

I'm worried that discussing this with the care home will cause problems for him if his family find out. He has not seen a social worker. He was first moved into temporary accommodation, and then suddenly found himself in permanent, and is not sure why!

It seems to me, decisions have been made for the best of the family, not him, and the longer this goes on without some sort of resolution....

nanapop1977

Who is currently funding his care?

If he's self-funding (i.e has assets of over £23250), presumably his property might need to be sold to fund this long term (whether his family has the legal authority to do this in his best interests is another matter).

If the LA is funding his care home fees, I'm sure they have assessed this as the most suitable care to meet his needs, taking into account his mental capacity and physical frailty. In the current climate particularly, this decision wouldn't have been taken lightly. 

Why couldn't this gentleman access his bank account?

As others have suggested, a chat with the care home manager (with yourself present if he wishes) might clarify what the situation is.

tooldle

Having gone straight from hospital to care home, might there have been a social worker involved? 
Is there any possibility your friend has early stage dementia? When my mum first went into care she likely would have told a similar story. But, things had been explained many times over and the dementia meant she couldn’t retain the info. I was approached / telephoned and challenged by well meaning souls who believed there to be nothing wrong with mum. Some people are very good at masking and good neighbours don’t always notice what is happening, including in my mum's case the police attending on several occasions.
Whilst the care home manager is likely not able to discuss the admission circumstances with you, there is nothing to stop you mentioning your friends comments and raising your concerns with the manager. They manager may be able to put your mind at rest or get an appropriate relative to contact you.
Edited to add, mum has lived in two care homes. Both had a rigorous assessment process prior to admission. Evidence of her need for care was required. 

elsien

If I were him I’d be bypassing the relatives and contacting the local authority. 

Someone is paying for him to be in the care home, and if his house is up for sale without his knowledge or agreement then that is a potential safeguarding issue.
If he has capacity he can give consent for any information to be shared with you.

If he was moved from hospital to a care home then it “may” have been a short term assessment bed (4-6 weeks) but there would have been assessments during that period that he would have taken part in. 

If the LA have assessed he needs care in a care home, he should be fully involved in that process, and if he has capacity he can choose to return home whatever anyone else thinks. And the care home would not be keeping him unless someone had promised to pay. 

If there is no power of attorney (and you can check this with the OPG, there is a form to complete and anyone can do it, you don’t need to be a relative) then his house cannot be sold and his bank account cannot be accessed without a deputyship. That is what he/you can check as a starting point. 

https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian

As others have said, it may be that he is not retaining everything, but as the presumption is that someone has capacity unless evidenced otherwise, that should be your starting point.