Shoplifting minors

[Deleted User]

Hi, I didn't know where to post this

ItsComingRome

Anyone can perform a citizens arrest on anyone else, their age is irrelevant.

The Police were called so it's not like they just detained them, they were detained until the Police could attend.

pramsay13

What difference does it make? 
Would you rather the security guards just let them wander out and therefore get away with their crime?
Hopefully the experience will out them off trying it again. 

ItsComingRome

Deleted_User said:

Thanks, I'm REALLY not trying to excuse them. I'm massively gutted and feel like I've really failed them over this. Just interested to know what they're able to do. My son struggles to work with actions and consequences. We've been trying to give him a bit of freedom by letting him go to the shop etc. He's with us 24/7 for the foreseeable future. So is his sister!!

At the end of the day they asked them a few questions and presumably didn't strip search them.  They could have refused but it's hardly Guantanamo Bay levels of treatment.

Perhaps it might teach them a lesson, especially if you don't side with them over the shop (at least to your kids, which would be the worst thing you could do.)

Monsternextdoor

Only the police can search them, So if the shop has searched them forcible they are at fault, They can ask then to open there bags etc but it has to be done in front of the police. 

It is not down to the shop to question them, they have absolutely no need to they only need to detain them until the police come, nor is it down to them to berate them. 

The shop has massively overstepped and personally I would complain, The stealing is not on make that clear but them detaining, searching and repeated questioning is massively overstepping. 

Who searched them ? In front of who ? Was your daughter searched by a female ? Did they pat her down ? Who questioned them ? Why question them repeatedly ? At any point were they split up ? Upon detaining them did they call you ?

You need to ask these questions to them and the shop staff as they sound like they need training.

Also this is a good book for you to get https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1787752844?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Let me state that stealing is not on, But it sounds that there handling leaves to many questions that need to be answered.

ItsComingRome

Monsternextdoor said:

Only the police can search them, So if the shop has searched them forcible they are at fault, They can ask then to open there bags etc but it has to be done in front of the police. 

It is not down to the shop to question them, they have absolutely no need to they only need to detain them until the police come, nor is it down to them to berate them. 

The shop has massively overstepped and personally I would complain, The stealing is not on make that clear but them detaining, searching and repeated questioning is massively overstepping. 

Who searched them ? In front of who ? Was your daughter searched by a female ? Did they pat her down ? Who questioned them ? Why question them repeatedly ? At any point were they split up ? Upon detaining them did they call you ?

You need to ask these questions to them and the shop staff as they sound like they need training.

Also this is a good book for you to get https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1787752844?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Let me state that stealing is not on, But it sounds that there handling leaves to many questions that need to be answered.

It's nonsense to suggest only the Police can search children, a quick Google search shows results about them being searched by headteachers without consent.

Can you point to a law which prohibits members of the public performing pat down searches?(I'm not saying it doesn't exist but given Google only points to rules for certain professions it seems not.)

user1977

ItsComingRome said:

Monsternextdoor said:

Only the police can search them, So if the shop has searched them forcible they are at fault, They can ask then to open there bags etc but it has to be done in front of the police. 

It is not down to the shop to question them, they have absolutely no need to they only need to detain them until the police come, nor is it down to them to berate them. 

The shop has massively overstepped and personally I would complain, The stealing is not on make that clear but them detaining, searching and repeated questioning is massively overstepping. 

Who searched them ? In front of who ? Was your daughter searched by a female ? Did they pat her down ? Who questioned them ? Why question them repeatedly ? At any point were they split up ? Upon detaining them did they call you ?

You need to ask these questions to them and the shop staff as they sound like they need training.

Also this is a good book for you to get https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1787752844?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Let me state that stealing is not on, But it sounds that there handling leaves to many questions that need to be answered.

Can you point to a law which prohibits members of the public performing pat down searches?(I'm not saying it doesn't exist but given Google only points to rules for certain professions it seems not.)

There's no general right for us to go around frisking each other. Why would there be? 

ItsComingRome

user1977 said:

ItsComingRome said:

Monsternextdoor said:

Only the police can search them, So if the shop has searched them forcible they are at fault, They can ask then to open there bags etc but it has to be done in front of the police. 

It is not down to the shop to question them, they have absolutely no need to they only need to detain them until the police come, nor is it down to them to berate them. 

The shop has massively overstepped and personally I would complain, The stealing is not on make that clear but them detaining, searching and repeated questioning is massively overstepping. 

Who searched them ? In front of who ? Was your daughter searched by a female ? Did they pat her down ? Who questioned them ? Why question them repeatedly ? At any point were they split up ? Upon detaining them did they call you ?

You need to ask these questions to them and the shop staff as they sound like they need training.

Also this is a good book for you to get https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1787752844?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Let me state that stealing is not on, But it sounds that there handling leaves to many questions that need to be answered.

Can you point to a law which prohibits members of the public performing pat down searches?(I'm not saying it doesn't exist but given Google only points to rules for certain professions it seems not.)

There's no general right for us to go around frisking each other. Why would there be? 

There doesn't need to be.

They were the suspects of a crime being detained.  Clearly "normal" rules don't apply.

The Police can't just go around frisking people either, so what's your point?

Monsternextdoor

ItsComingRome said:

Monsternextdoor said:

Only the police can search them, So if the shop has searched them forcible they are at fault, They can ask then to open there bags etc but it has to be done in front of the police. 

It is not down to the shop to question them, they have absolutely no need to they only need to detain them until the police come, nor is it down to them to berate them. 

The shop has massively overstepped and personally I would complain, The stealing is not on make that clear but them detaining, searching and repeated questioning is massively overstepping. 

Who searched them ? In front of who ? Was your daughter searched by a female ? Did they pat her down ? Who questioned them ? Why question them repeatedly ? At any point were they split up ? Upon detaining them did they call you ?

You need to ask these questions to them and the shop staff as they sound like they need training.

Also this is a good book for you to get https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1787752844?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Let me state that stealing is not on, But it sounds that there handling leaves to many questions that need to be answered.

It's nonsense to suggest only the Police can search children, a quick Google search shows results about them being searched by headteachers without consent.

Can you point to a law which prohibits members of the public performing pat down searches?(I'm not saying it doesn't exist but given Google only points to rules for certain professions it seems not.)

Worked in retail,housing and with kids with special needs for over 20 years and I am a mother of an ASD child, The police are the only ones with stop and search powers, Also If the did not consent to the search it is classed as assault. 

Same with bag searches you can refuse to let them look in your bag when the alarm goes off, The have absolutely no right at all to coerce or forcibly make you open the bag all they can legally do is detain you till the police are called. 

Head teachers can ask them to open their bags and pockets but again cannot forcibly make them do so same rules apply.

Also are all members of the public taught how to do a pat down, how to explain it, where to touch and how much pressure they are to apply ? No, For all we no you have a minor who has been searched and patted down by a lone male with no chaperone, How would a child know that she has been searched correctly and touched with the minimum of fuss.

Aylesbury_Duck

OP, don't beat yourself up about it.  You sound like a good, responsible parent.  Many kids will do something daft or illegal at some point, it's what many kids do, regardless of how good their upbringing is.  What matters is how those kids and their parents react.  You might consider making them turn up to apologise to the store manager, or writing him/her a letter to say sorry.

Your kids have been silly, they've been caught and now they understand the consequences.  I suspect they won't be tempted into it, or anything else similarly daft, any time soon.

Monsternextdoor

"The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984:

24A Arrest without warrant: other persons

(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant— (a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence; (b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant— (a) anyone who is guilty of the offence; (b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

 (3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if— (a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and (b ) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.

(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question— (a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person; (b) suffering physical injury; (c) causing loss of or damage to property; or (d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.”


Nothing there about searching anyone and that is the law pertaining to a citizen's arrest.