Garage conversion - am I deluded??

Doozergirl

That needs planning permission too!! Not permitted development with a shower. 

Don't do it.  Who is really going to choose to go for a shower out there? 

Would you spend £5k on another bathroom indoors if you already have a spare one?  

Doozergirl

But also, following on from a
recent thread about spare bedrooms (very expensive but rarely used spaces), please consider using those differently before you convert the garage.  

How could you benefit from turning one of those into a more sociable space?  Or even knocking a wall down and having different spaces.  

We do have a garden room so I'm certainly not dismissing the plan, but my husband and I also have almost half the entire house as our 'suite'. Every corner of every room in this house used and it's amazing 😍.  Our last house was quite a bit smaller but had two rooms that never really found a proper identity.  
 

Our son does enjoy the garden room, but maybe he'd enjoy his own lounge too, with a door knocked through from his 
bedroom, if that were an option...  or adding a dressing room for someone... 

Quality of space over quantity of rooms.  Be flexible and have fun.  The kids won't be there forever either, so consider how your spaces will work in the future too.  



 

Rosa_Damascena

Doozergirl said:

That needs planning permission too!! Not permitted development with a shower. 

Don't do it.  Who is really going to choose to go for a shower out there? 

Would you spend £5k on another bathroom indoors if you already have a spare one?  

 

x2 (and 1/2)!!

Jeepers_Creepers

Rosa_Damascena said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I am actually not being totally flippant - I estimate my garage conversion cost me less than £2k, and £800 of that was on the 2.4m patio doors. And I know I wouldn't notice or feel any difference had I paid £10k to a specialist for this job.

How did you manage that??! It cost me more for 3m of foundations!!

It was almost 20 years ago :-) And that was just for materials as I DIYed it.

(And it actually got 'passed' by the BCO as well, since the PP and BC was included as part of a loft conversion and new garage build)

Jeepers_Creepers

MFdreamer said:

Just popping by with an update for those who were interested…..

Applied for pre-planning advice and the council confirmed in writing that I can convert the garage as planned with no planning permission required. They have advised I might need building control sign off but the builders who have quoted confirmed they will liaise directly with them regarding this.

In terms of the quote….it has come in at £10.3k. This includes 60mm insulation, dry lining and plastering, some rewiring of the existing electrics and the installation of the patio door I wanted. I need to check heating but I think they mentioned electrical heating but I can’t see it on the quote.

Thanks to everyone that provided insight. It was very much appreciated 😊

That's a result, MFd! It sounds like the most sensible compromise you could have - approved conversion, and with a sensible level of insulation.

Heating will undoubtedly be electric, and they'll likely suggest something simple like wall-mounted panel heaters. Anything more impressive - like UFH - will cost £ks, and would be a luxury. Not at all required - this will be easy to heat. (They might not have priced for heating, so make sure it's allowed for - eg suitable outlets for the panel(s).

Jeepers_Creepers

MFdreamer said:

OP - I don't understand why you wouldn't wish to convert this into proper living accommodation? What is the point of sinking £10k into this project if you can't do as you like, when you like with this space?

Because I’d never use it? I have 2 empty bedrooms and one bathroom more than people in my house already. I just lack downstairs socialising/play space so that’s what I’m trying to obtain.

That being said, the builders have tried to talk me into having a kitchen and bathroom installed. I definitely am not having a kitchen but I have agreed to have a shower and toilet (plus building control sign off) for an extra £5k. I don’t think it will get used much at all anytime soon but does give a bit more flexibility for the future.

The thing is, MFd will be able to do with this space 97.5% as they like.

In the infinitesimally unlikely event that they'd want to ensconce someone in there as a permanent fixture, then the rules would be 'bent' only slightly if at all, but it still wouldn't be an issue unless someone were to complain. And this would be even more infinitesimally unlikely since MFd is going about this work in the correct way, and anyone who'll be aware of this work will also know it hasn't been done on the quiet, but up front with PP and BC.

By going for this option, what actual 'compromise' will MFd be making here? None in any practical sense. You would not - without the most sensitive electronic equipment - be able to detect the difference in insulation levels between 60mm and whatever a fully-habitable room would require. And the extra £100's or even £k's required for max insulation would never ever ever be recouped. Ever.

The only conceivable difference will be, you'll be able to tell any new owner "Yes, it fully conforms to the latest habitable regs!", to which the answer is quite likely to be "That's a shame - 'cos I'm going to rip most of it out..."

As it stands, MFd can rightly say it's genuinely cosy and almost certainly insulated to at least a similar level to the rest of the house (I'd bet it's higher...), is PP exempt, and had BRegs approval. What more do you want?

Loo? I would say 'yes' to that - absolutely. Who on earth wants to go scurrying into the main house for a waz? Shower? No - an unnecessary, expensive, space-wasting luxury - that produces steam.

Who's the quote from, MFd? The 'specialist'?

Oh, and make sure the spec includes a smoke alarm or S62 will be on my case again. :-)

Jeepers_Creepers

Doozergirl said:

But also, following on from a
recent thread about spare bedrooms (very expensive but rarely used spaces), please consider using those differently before you convert the garage.  

How could you benefit from turning one of those into a more sociable space?  Or even knocking a wall down and having different spaces.  

We do have a garden room so I'm certainly not dismissing the plan, but my husband and I also have almost half the entire house as our 'suite'. Every corner of every room in this house used and it's amazing 😍.  Our last house was quite a bit smaller but had two rooms that never really found a proper identity.  
 

Our son does enjoy the garden room, but maybe he'd enjoy his own lounge too, with a door knocked through from his 
bedroom, if that were an option...  or adding a dressing room for someone... 

Quality of space over quantity of rooms.  Be flexible and have fun.  The kids won't be there forever either, so consider how your spaces will work in the future too.  

The garage will be a 'den', by the simple fact of it being detached from the main house. It'll also almost certainly be larger than any of the spare bedrooms. It'll provide a degree of autonomy for their kid(s) and their friends. It'll be 'cool'. I'll go further - it'll be 'awesome'...

Doozergirl

I can't be bothered to quote properly, but 

"In the infinitesimally unlikely event that they'd want to ensconce someone in there as a permanent fixture, then the rules would be 'bent' only slightly if at all"

It's far more than a bending.  There are minimum standards for dwellings and sticking someone in a garage is not generally considered to be an appropriate dwelling in this country.  The rules don't just apply to current owners, but future ones too, no matter how far in the future.  

You were advocating not even meeting building regulations earlier in this thread and now you think that sticking granny in the garage doesn't contravene much? 

If someone lives in an outbuilding as a self contained unit, it NEEDS planning, it NEEDS building control and it NEEDS to be registered for council tax. 

None of those apply to a simple garage conversion.  The OP can go and put a TV in it right now and sleep the occasional
night if they wanted to.  There is a happy medium.  

What is the proposed route for the drainage even?   There's serious considerations there for a four inch waste.  Building control, again.  LOTS of builders ignore this - I've had to keep my mouth shut about a friend's garden room which has a shower room and a none of the above sign off. 

MFdreamer

The garage will be a 'den', by the simple fact of it being detached from the main house. It'll also almost certainly be larger than any of the spare bedrooms. It'll provide a degree of autonomy for their kid(s) and their friends. It'll be 'cool'. I'll go further - it'll be 'awesome'...

Precisely! This is exactly what I want! Somewhere safe and fun for the kids to chill out in rather than on the streets. I’m hoping that having a separate cozy private space will encourage them to use that rather than hang around in parks. 

My spare bedrooms are currently exactly how I want them. One is a box room which I’ve had custom storage built into so it’s very well used. The carpenter thought my idea was mad but when he finished he agreed it’s perfect and I’ve had it for 5 years and still am so pleased with it. The other is a double guest bedroom that used to get used a lot (pre Covid) and I am hopeful will be used a lot again in the future. I wouldn’t want to sacrifice either of those for a kids tv room. The house is already extended to the max by the previous owners so that isn’t an option either as there’s just no space. The layout of the house also makes using the space differently tricky. I could convert the conservatory into a room for the kids but it won’t be at all private and I like sitting in there myself so don’t want to give that up!

I’ve told the builders to proceed with the plans for a toilet/sink only (no shower) as I think people are right and the shower just wouldn’t ever get used. The drainage is not going to be overly complex they said. They explained it to me but I can’t really remember what they said.

Jeepers_Creepers

Doozergirl said:

I can't be bothered to quote properly, but 

"In the infinitesimally unlikely event that they'd want to ensconce someone in there as a permanent fixture, then the rules would be 'bent' only slightly if at all"

It's far more than a bending.  There are minimum standards for dwellings and sticking someone in a garage is not generally considered to be an appropriate dwelling in this country.  The rules don't just apply to current owners, but future ones too, no matter how far in the future.  

You were advocating not even meeting building regulations earlier in this thread and now you think that sticking granny in the garage doesn't contravene much? 

If someone lives in an outbuilding as a self contained unit, it NEEDS planning, it NEEDS building control and it NEEDS to be registered for council tax. 

None of those apply to a simple garage conversion.  The OP can go and put a TV in it right now and sleep the occasional
night if they wanted to.  There is a happy medium.  

What is the proposed route for the drainage even?   There's serious considerations there for a four inch waste.  Building control, again.  LOTS of builders ignore this - I've had to keep my mouth shut about a friend's garden room which has a shower room and a none of the above sign off. 

Yeah yeah yeah, I know....

I'm talking practicalities.

A fully-cert'd room is (a) just not what MFd wants and never will, and (b) if anyone else were ever to make that garage their permanent home in the future, then it would still be every bit as well insulated and everything else that's of importance as the rest of MFd's house. It'll be at least as good, and probably better, than the main house.

There will be no practical difference in terms of living standards.

The converted garage in which I am currently sitting does not, and didn't at the time, meet the 'necessary' insulation requirements. It is still the easiest room in the house to keep warm (essentially due to not being draughty!)

I'm just saying, for MFd to bring this garage up to the full habitable standards would serve no purpose for them, empty their pockets a bit more, and the difference would be indecipherable for any future occupant, temp or otherwise.

MFd does not, for a nano-second, actual believe making this a certifiably 'habitable' room will add any value to their house. And it'll cost them £ks, and reduce the inside space.

Practicalities and common sense.

Yes, of course the loo's drainage needs to be done correctly, and the room ventilated. The 'specialist' said they'd liaise with BC over this conversion, so the assumption is that this will be done. If it isn't, that's an entirely different issue.