Garage conversion - am I deluded??

Section62

MFdreamer said:

Oh that’s interesting but I guess kind of makes sense now you mention it. The garage was built in 2010 and was on a combined planning application for a side extension. Both the extension and the garage were done at the same time and all building regs and sign offs were done. 

Sorry, I said 'garage' when I meant to say 'house', you said 2010 in your first post, but I was wondering how old the house was.

Having an extension done at the same time would make me more likely to expect some kind of restriction on future conversion of the garage. (for the same reasons as before, but with the addition of overdevelopment)

If you don't already have a copy of the planning consent you should be able to check and find it yourself via the local council's website. Normally there's a facility to search for planning applications, and it will let you specify either a postcode, street name, or possibly your exact address.

Look for all the applications (both granted and refused) for as far back as the site holds records for. Earlier ones might just have the date and outcome rather than full details, but by 2010 most councils published full details online.

You are looking for the section of any decision notices/letters which refers to 'conditions', and also anything referring to an 'Article 4 Direction'.

MFdreamer

Section62 said:

MFdreamer said:

Oh that’s interesting but I guess kind of makes sense now you mention it. The garage was built in 2010 and was on a combined planning application for a side extension. Both the extension and the garage were done at the same time and all building regs and sign offs were done. 

Sorry, I said 'garage' when I meant to say 'house', you said 2010 in your first post, but I was wondering how old the house was.

Having an extension done at the same time would make me more likely to expect some kind of restriction on future conversion of the garage. (for the same reasons as before, but with the addition of overdevelopment)

If you don't already have a copy of the planning consent you should be able to check and find it yourself via the local council's website. Normally there's a facility to search for planning applications, and it will let you specify either a postcode, street name, or possibly your exact address.

Look for all the applications (both granted and refused) for as far back as the site holds records for. Earlier ones might just have the date and outcome rather than full details, but by 2010 most councils published full details online.

You are looking for the section of any decision notices/letters which refers to 'conditions', and also anything referring to an 'Article 4 Direction'.

Thank you that is amazingly helpful! I have a copy of the planning filed so will have a look for conditions and any reference to Article 4 direction. 

Thanks again - really appreciate it. 

twopenny

Don't believe for one moment that people won't know what the garage is being used for. Ie tv etc.
Your neighbour's, bus travellers and interested passing moterists will see the trades.
Your daughter will boast to her friends and ask them round. They will tell their parents, it will be discussion in the pub.
And theirs more. That's what happens.
It's fairly unusual so makes it interesting.

MFdreamer

Thanks! Have found the conditions. There were only 2. One was that all work had to be commenced within 5 years and the second was that all proposed external materials had to be submitted for sign off for “visual” reasons. Turns out it’s not just me who cares how it looks 😂 to be fair the garage looks like it was built at the same time as the house (even though 40 years in between) as the brickwork and tiling matches precisely.

Can’t see anything about use of the garage but will probably call the council to discuss on Tuesday.

Section62

MFdreamer said:

Can’t see anything about use of the garage but will probably call the council to discuss on Tuesday.

It isn't just the 2010 application you need to look at though - you need to know whether there were previous (or subsequent) applications that include conditions or an Art4 Direction.

You might get that information if you call the council, but be prepared for them to say they will only give advice if you pay a fee.

MFdreamer

Oh thanks missed that point. Thanks for flagging it!

Section62 said:

MFdreamer said:

Can’t see anything about use of the garage but will probably call the council to discuss on Tuesday.

It isn't just the 2010 application you need to look at though - you need to know whether there were previous (or subsequent) applications that include conditions or an Art4 Direction.

You might get that information if you call the council, but be prepared for them to say they will only give advice if you pay a fee.

Rosa_Damascena

MFdreamer said:

Thanks! Have found the conditions. There were only 2. One was that all work had to be commenced within 5 years and the second was that all proposed external materials had to be submitted for sign off for “visual” reasons. Turns out it’s not just me who cares how it looks 😂 to be fair the garage looks like it was built at the same time as the house (even though 40 years in between) as the brickwork and tiling matches precisely.

Can’t see anything about use of the garage but will probably call the council to discuss on Tuesday.

This kind of covenant is pretty standard for new builds.

Your budget is undoubtedly on the low side, I would have veered more towards your parents' estimate but as new build it sounds like is fit for future development (rather than a standard outbuilding) will save a great deal. 

The bit that intrigues me is your signature. Why aren't you paying off your debt in full first? Eta: have just realised its mortgage, in which case go ahead - its the cheapest form of lending available.

MFdreamer

Rosa_Damascena said:

MFdreamer said:

Thanks! Have found the conditions. There were only 2. One was that all work had to be commenced within 5 years and the second was that all proposed external materials had to be submitted for sign off for “visual” reasons. Turns out it’s not just me who cares how it looks 😂 to be fair the garage looks like it was built at the same time as the house (even though 40 years in between) as the brickwork and tiling matches precisely.

Can’t see anything about use of the garage but will probably call the council to discuss on Tuesday.

This kind of covenant is pretty standard for new builds.

Your budget is undoubtedly on the low side, I would have veered more towards your parents' estimate but as new build it sounds like is fit for future development (rather than a standard outbuilding) will save a great deal. 

The bit that intrigues me is your signature. Why aren't you paying off your debt in full first? Eta: have just realised its mortgage, in which case go ahead - its the cheapest form of lending available.

Gosh yes I’d have thought the same as you! I wouldn’t dream of a project like this if my signature amounts were debt balances. I have zero debt, a large savings balance and a low mortgage. I am saving significant amounts each month (into savings, investments and pension) as well as paying off my mortgage (which should be clear next year).

I have an available cash balance of more than my parents estimate that I *could* use for this. The issue is how much of my available cash I think this project is worth. It’s literally going to be a TV/game room for my daughter which isn’t worth £40k to me. I want to do it properly with all appropriate consents and a good finish but if the quote is more than £25k then this is more than it’s currently worth to me and I wont go ahead. I am a very cautious person and as a sole adult in the household, I want a large emergency buffer and dipping into it too much for a kids TV/games room feels too risky to me (especially after Covid).

The whole reason for the post is to get a better idea of cost before I meet the conversion specialists tomorrow because I don’t want to get taken advantage of when they see a clueless single woman. Also I know they will ask me my budget but I don’t want to tell them what my available max is, or insult them by saying something far too low.

Doozergirl

It won't cost near to your parents' estimate.  

You have the building, it's pretty new and it even has electricity, I think you said. 

The quality of the doors you use will influence the budget heavily and insulation is currently hugely more expensive than it used to be, but I don't really see you anything more than £20k.   If you're asked about budget, I'd say less because I haven't seen it and the quality of fittings makes the difference.  

Re: Building Regulations.  Anything under 30 square metres does not require building control sign off, however, you can opt to obtain it.   I'm not sure I would bother with that personally - but I would convert it to regulation standard for a habitable conversion, which mainly involves the level of insulation you use.    

Contrary to the person saying 'why would you meet regulations' I say why wouldn't you?  The labour cost of fitting insulation is the same regardless of the thickness of it. Insulation isn't cheap but it does work and a fully habitable room is far better than a half job.  Because the building is detached, it has a huge exposed surface area to floor space and will not benefit from heat referred from anywhere much else in the winter.  Insulation is key.  Building regulations are also a minimum standard, not a gold standard so why work to a lower standard?  

Re: planning.  You can look for all of these directives (ie. are you in a conservation area for most people), but the likelihood is that what you want to do falls under permitted development.   With no kitchen/bathroom facilities it isn't remotely capable
of being a living space, so there should be no issue.  You also have ample parking.  

"Conversion specialists" - this is the simplest building job known to man.  There's nothing to specialise in.  Any builder with a half brain can do it.  As said, it is an easy DIY job for someone with the motivation.   'Specialist' is a marketing term for this type of thing, they're not like medical consultants!  Ask them about the insulation they want to use after you've told them that you expect quality.  The current requirement for a roof, for example, is 120/125mm of solid insulation like Kingspan.   We are starting a garden room business and my objective is to exceed what seems to be accepted quality standards.  'Glorified shed' is the standard of most, paeticularly the people with a very expensive website, using Kevin McLeod in their marketing.  

Leaving the doors on is also fine.   It can be insulated correctly.  A working damp proof membrane is going to be very important at the threshold.  We've had to leave doors on a garage conversion in a listed building before and it hasn't affected it. 

Good luck.  You've received all the information given to you well.  There's a fair bit of misinformation in there, though nothing particularly dangerous so I won't pick holes.  

Your daughter will enjoy the room.  Our son uses ours a lot and visitors to it are common.  The kids love having a separate space.  

If you want to hang anything from the walls, like storage units or shelving you should consider that insulated plasterboard won't be helpful for that and you should consider a layer of OSB or plywood over solid insulation.  

Doozergirl

Regarding drawings, I get why some people might say that you're not being serious, but it is a simple project that should be very easy to specify, plus, there are no regs to meet under 30 square metres and it needing planning permission is unlikely, so you're paying money for a drawing of something for no one but the builder - and it should be second nature to a good builder, so it's like teaching granny to suck eggs. 

Most of our clients don't start with drawings, they want help first.  So some builders, maybe most, expect plans to look at and to go away quote from, we expect a relationship to build first.  I'd obviously be fine if someone had plans, but it doesn't really help us or the client figure each other out very well at a first meeting.  They've built a nice relationship talking about the specification with someone they'll never see again and I've got a piece of paper and an already-expectant face staring at me.  

There's pros and cons to both.  Obviously I'd want the builder to be working to a standard, but even having a specification doesn't guarantee that you'll get it if you pick the wrong person.  Reputation is important, and then the next simplest test for me is whether I'd be happy talking to these people at a dinner party!  

Bear in mind that the builder will pick you too, so a bit of flexibility goes a
long way.  And don't ever moan about other builders - I can't judge where it all went wrong, so all I can judge someone on at a first meeting is their positivity (or not).  If I get a hint of negativity, it has to be a no, because we're trusting these people too.  You don't sound negative at all, by the way!