Garage conversion - am I deluded??

MFdreamer

Thank you @Doozergirl. That’s really helpful and I will definitely ask them about their proposed insulation. You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head with your comment regarding the kids loving having a separate space. That’s exactly what I’m looking for and my motivation. Hence why I don’t want to spend mega money on it. £25k is my absolute upper limit and I’d have to think carefully about going that high. Maybe when I’ve got a moody teenager that I want to keep an eye on my value threshold will increase and I’d be happy to pay much more 😂

I also don’t see the point of doing anything other than a proper job. I don’t often spend large amounts of money but if I am going to then I don’t want to cut corners and not have the standard needed to really maximise the use. No point not insulating well as my daughter won’t use it if it’s too cold!

The guys I’ve got coming to quote are local builders so not a big player but they have recently started marketing themselves as “conversion specialists”. I guess to attract clueless people like me 😆

My local council do free pre-application advice so I’ve submitted the details this morning to find out if there are any restrictions on me changing the use from a garage to a “playroom”. 

Thanks so much to everyone who has provided helpful suggestions. I know I have no idea what I’m doing and that’s why I’m trying to obtain guidance from clever people on tinterweb 😁

Jeepers_Creepers

MFd, you are clearly committed to doing this 'properly', and Doozer's advice above is great. (I wasn't aware that under 30m2 doesn't require BC sign off.) Keep all the paperwork, and even take some photos to demonstrate the quality of the work carried out.

If it doesn't require PP or BC control, that's a potentially annoying time element taken care of - so 'all' you need to do now is find a person to do the job. If you use a 'specialist', I suspect you are talking about the max outlay for such a job - they are 'specialists', after all, and that usually comes with a premium. As Doozer says, this is as straight-forward a job of its type as it could be, and a joiner - I would suggest - would be the main tradesperson required for 95% of the work. So, if you weren't determined to go to 'regs standard' (120mm of Kingspan in the ceiling! Lawdie! And how much in the walls?!), then you would have this carried out for a fraction of the specialist's cost, and not detect any practical, environmental or physical difference in use.

The room will perform the exact same job to an undetectably similar standard. I say that as I sit my own converted single-skin garage which has only 2" of insulation on the walls (largely due to room-width constraints), but is by far the cosiest room in the whole house. It is literally kept warm, even in winter, by the glow of the plasma TV I use as a monitor. I kid not.

It could even be - silly, perhaps, but quite possible - that any future buyer of your property will be slightly put off by a proper 'habitable' conversion; they will be aware that you will have spent a considerable sum on doing this, and will therefore find it harder to drag themselves away from considering it as anything but an additional room. If that happens to suit them - a detached single room - then great, they'll love it. But if they want it as a garage, they will be equally aware they'll be (a) paying a premium for something they don't actually want, (b) will soon be carrying out an act of wanton antirefurbishment, (c) compromising on the garage's interior space, (d), paying extra for someone to partially destroy the lovely work, and (e) I'll think of something else in a moment.

I am actually not being totally flippant - I estimate my garage conversion cost me less than £2k, and £800 of that was on the 2.4m patio doors. And I know I wouldn't notice or feel any difference had I paid £10k to a specialist for this job.

MFdreamer

Thanks @Jeepers_Creepers.

I love my house and am very close to my family and friends so there’s zero chance of me selling the house before I have to (I.e. move into a care home or something) so I don’t really care about what future buyers might think/do, or the impact it has on my house value/marketability. 

Will investigate a Joiner though as that sounds a good idea 👍🏻 

Jeepers_Creepers

Enjoy, MFd, and please keep us posted - we love projects like these

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

(I wasn't aware that under 30m2 doesn't require BC sign off.)

...

If it doesn't require PP or BC control, that's a potentially annoying time element taken care of -

The 30m2 rule only applies if the structure contains no sleeping accommodation. It also has to be at least 1m away from the property boundary or "constructed substantially of non-combustible materials".

From what MFdreamer describes the building won't (currently) be providing formal sleeping accommodation.

But it is reasonably foreseeable that sleeping may take place in the room(s), if not officially.

The reason for this building control rule is people are especially vulnerable to fire and smoke whilst asleep.  In a 'daytime only' building people are conscious, and will react quickly at the first hint of danger.  People who are sleeping don't react.


So, given the possibility of a daughter (plus friends) sleeping in the space - would it be your choice to make sure the building is converted in compliance with the regulations, or would you skimp on that part to save a few quid just because the rules allow you to if you pretend nobody will be using it as sleeping accommodation?


As for building control involvement, rather than being "annoying", their function is to protect members of the public who can't be expected to know and understand the rules, from the dodgy builders (and DIYers) who happily bodge work because they are only interested in the money and don't care about the risks.

If you don't know the rules then you cannot know whether or not the builder you are using knows the rules or is complying with them themselves.  This is one of the biggest shortcuts people make - assuming the builder they are employing is an 'expert' and will always follow the rules.  You know that we regularly get people coming to this forum having to deal with the consequences of that, even when the builder is a friend or relative and someone you should be able to trust....
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6292478/buyers-solicitors-refusing-indemnity-policy/p1

Ironically, building control officers are very much like accountants - their job is also to make sure the rules are being followed so the rest of us don't have to bother learning them all.


Finally, it also makes sense for MFdreamer to future proof what she's doing now.  The current plan doesn't involve formal sleeping accommodation, but what if in a few years the plan develops into converting the garage into a mini-annexe so the daughter has more autonomy whilst still living at home?  Adding sleeping accommodation at that stage will require BC signoff, and that signoff won't happen without first dealing with any substandard or uncertain quality work carried out now.  There's not much point saving a little money on doing a bodge now if you have to rip it out and start again later.

That's also one of the good reasons for employing an architect and/or BC on a project - they've seen it all before and will apply some lateral thought to low cost design modifications which will save money in future.  Things a layperson or DIYer wouldn't necessarily think of that make the difference between a good project and a brilliant project. So learn to love your BC officer, don't hate them.

Doozergirl

Turning it into proper sleeping accommodation requires planning permission.  If it becomes an annexe then we're into Council Tax territory.   We're not talking about that, so please let's not add too much confusion.  

Jeepers_Creepers

Section62 said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

(I wasn't aware that under 30m2 doesn't require BC sign off.)

...

If it doesn't require PP or BC control, that's a potentially annoying time element taken care of -

The 30m2 rule only applies if the structure contains no sleeping accommodation. It also has to be at least 1m away from the property boundary or "constructed substantially of non-combustible materials".

From what MFdreamer describes the building won't (currently) be providing formal sleeping accommodation.

But it is reasonably foreseeable that sleeping may take place in the room(s), if not officially.

The reason for this building control rule is people are especially vulnerable to fire and smoke whilst asleep.  In a 'daytime only' building people are conscious, and will react quickly at the first hint of danger.  People who are sleeping don't react.


So, given the possibility of a daughter (plus friends) sleeping in the space - would it be your choice to make sure the building is converted in compliance with the regulations, or would you skimp on that part to save a few quid just because the rules allow you to if you pretend nobody will be using it as sleeping accommodation?


As for building control involvement, rather than being "annoying", their function is to protect members of the public who can't be expected to know and understand the rules, from the dodgy builders (and DIYers) who happily bodge work because they are only interested in the money and don't care about the risks.

If you don't know the rules then you cannot know whether or not the builder you are using knows the rules or is complying with them themselves.  This is one of the biggest shortcuts people make - assuming the builder they are employing is an 'expert' and will always follow the rules.  You know that we regularly get people coming to this forum having to deal with the consequences of that, even when the builder is a friend or relative and someone you should be able to trust....
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6292478/buyers-solicitors-refusing-indemnity-policy/p1

Ironically, building control officers are very much like accountants - their job is also to make sure the rules are being followed so the rest of us don't have to bother learning them all.


Finally, it also makes sense for MFdreamer to future proof what she's doing now.  The current plan doesn't involve formal sleeping accommodation, but what if in a few years the plan develops into converting the garage into a mini-annexe so the daughter has more autonomy whilst still living at home?  Adding sleeping accommodation at that stage will require BC signoff, and that signoff won't happen without first dealing with any substandard or uncertain quality work carried out now.  There's not much point saving a little money on doing a bodge now if you have to rip it out and start again later.

That's also one of the good reasons for employing an architect and/or BC on a project - they've seen it all before and will apply some lateral thought to low cost design modifications which will save money in future.  Things a layperson or DIYer wouldn't necessarily think of that make the difference between a good project and a brilliant project. So learn to love your BC officer, don't hate them.

Of course I wouldn't compromise on safety, S62, and I find that a ridiculous leap to make from what I was suggesting.

MFdreamer

Just popping by with an update for those who were interested…..

Applied for pre-planning advice and the council confirmed in writing that I can convert the garage as planned with no planning permission required. They have advised I might need building control sign off but the builders who have quoted confirmed they will liaise directly with them regarding this.

In terms of the quote….it has come in at £10.3k. This includes 60mm insulation, dry lining and plastering, some rewiring of the existing electrics and the installation of the patio door I wanted. I need to check heating but I think they mentioned electrical heating but I can’t see it on the quote.

Thanks to everyone that provided insight. It was very much appreciated 😊

Rosa_Damascena

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I am actually not being totally flippant - I estimate my garage conversion cost me less than £2k, and £800 of that was on the 2.4m patio doors. And I know I wouldn't notice or feel any difference had I paid £10k to a specialist for this job.

How did you manage that??! It cost me more for 3m of foundations!!

OP - I don't understand why you wouldn't wish to convert this into proper living accommodation? What is the point of sinking £10k into this project if you can't do as you like, when you like with this space?

MFdreamer

OP - I don't understand why you wouldn't wish to convert this into proper living accommodation? What is the point of sinking £10k into this project if you can't do as you like, when you like with this space?

Because I’d never use it? I have 2 empty bedrooms and one bathroom more than people in my house already. I just lack downstairs socialising/play space so that’s what I’m trying to obtain.

That being said, the builders have tried to talk me into having a kitchen and bathroom installed. I definitely am not having a kitchen but I have agreed to have a shower and toilet (plus building control sign off) for an extra £5k. I don’t think it will get used much at all anytime soon but does give a bit more flexibility for the future.