Please delete my forum account delete delete delete delete delete runabout outside

Thrugelmir

Deleted_User said:

eskbanker said:

... unless you adopt the approach suggested by another poster earlier of initially validating accounts with CoP and then going back and editing the payee name to use your preferred unique nickname.

On my Santander & Halifax accounts, once I have set up my payees and created a payment I cannot go back later to edit them. If I want to change the details I have to delete the payees and set them up from scratch.

I can see better use of valuable resources than pandering to minor irritations that impacts very few customers.

masonic

eskbanker said:

Deleted_User said:

eskbanker said:

... unless you adopt the approach suggested by another poster earlier of initially validating accounts with CoP and then going back and editing the payee name to use your preferred unique nickname.

On my Santander & Halifax accounts, once I have set up my payees and created a payment I cannot go back later to edit them. If I want to change the details I have to delete the payees and set them up from scratch.

Out of curiosity, I just tried it on my Santander account online banking (I don't have a Halifax account) and the workaround works fine, as long as you edit the name before creating the payment, i.e. use CoP to validate the payee and then choose a nickname, before proceeding to make the first payment.  Job done - no sweat....

I've just checked and it doesn't work on Halifax (at least not on the app), no option to edit the name once verified or step back and change it without re-entering the account number and sort code. Though being able to check, then go back and start again with a nickname could still be of some value.

eskbanker

Deleted_User said:

I know, I know, I know that CoP did not mandate the provision of a nickname field I am well aware of that!!!

However for me personally as a private individual CoP is of no use to me without that extra field. So to be able to use CoP properly I need that field. As we live in a free country I am entitled to refer to it as "implementing CoP properly".

I suspect that we're some way beyond diminishing returns in this dialogue but yes, you can refer to it how you like, however inaccurate that characterisation may be.  However, the fact that nicknames are (factually) unrelated to CoP implementation means that it's unreasonable to consider it a matter about which to raise a formal complaint to your banks, and to describe this as "making a mockery" of CoP is clearly devoid of credibility....

masonic

Deleted_User said:

I'm interested to hear the suggestion that Santander might allow it. I've just logged in (online on PC) and followed the "Amend Payee" dialogue but, as expected, the only field I can amend is "Reference" with all the others being locked. Do you have a magic key that allows any other fields to be amended?

I believe that eskbanker means that when you are setting up a new payment, there is a point (after CoP runs) at which you can edit the name before it is saved.

eskbanker

Deleted_User said:

I'm interested to hear the suggestion that Santander might allow it. I've just logged in (online on PC) and followed the "Amend Payee" dialogue but, as expected, the only field I can amend is "Reference" with all the others being locked. Do you have a magic key that allows any other fields to be amended?

I'm referring to the initial process of setting up a payee....

masonic

eskbanker said:

Deleted_User said:

I'm interested to hear the suggestion that Santander might allow it. I've just logged in (online on PC) and followed the "Amend Payee" dialogue but, as expected, the only field I can amend is "Reference" with all the others being locked. Do you have a magic key that allows any other fields to be amended?

I'm referring to the initial process of setting up a payee....

So then Santander does in fact allow nicknames, leaving only Halifax of the banks identified in this thread, which does not. What's more, the Santander implementation of leaving the name field editable at the point the payment amount and date are requested is perhaps the most simple way for a bank to deliver this functionality. Perhaps, picks, you would like to get back to Halifax and suggest this implementation?

masonic

Deleted_User said:

masonic said:

eskbanker said:

Deleted_User said:

I'm interested to hear the suggestion that Santander might allow it. I've just logged in (online on PC) and followed the "Amend Payee" dialogue but, as expected, the only field I can amend is "Reference" with all the others being locked. Do you have a magic key that allows any other fields to be amended?

I'm referring to the initial process of setting up a payee....

So then Santander does in fact allow nicknames, leaving only Halifax of the banks identified in this thread, which does not.

Well, I'm not aware unless there is a new magic Santander bank (or Bank account) which has just appeared on the scene? I've just viewed my Santander accounts on screen and as far as I can see, payees all still only have the same old user fields ie:

Sort Code

Account Number

Account name

Reference

Which has been unchanged for years. Please tell me where I might locate a further field that is in effect a nickname or similar?

You enter those details (with the account name matching), go to the next screen where you get feedback from CoP - hopefully that it is confirmed, then you change the account name to whatever you like before confirming the new payee. The nickname is the account name itself, rather clever really.

masonic

Deleted_User said:

masonic said:

Deleted_User said:

I'm interested to hear the suggestion that Santander might allow it. I've just logged in (online on PC) and followed the "Amend Payee" dialogue but, as expected, the only field I can amend is "Reference" with all the others being locked. Do you have a magic key that allows any other fields to be amended?

I believe that eskbanker means that when you are setting up a new payment, there is a point (after CoP runs) at which you can edit the name before it is saved.

Ah, that's a new one on me. All my Santander payees are currently set up using my personal £1 payment verification scheme. Therefore in all cases the "account names" are all effectively "nicknames" and when I initially set payees up I know the nicknames are obviously not able to be CoP validated. I'm continuing to use this with all bank accounts (eg Santander & Halifax) that lack "nickname" fields. So my personal validation system kicks in and comprises sending an initial £1 and doing nothing further until I have been able to verify receipt into my receiving account. So my payee in my way of working has not been fully "set up" until after the £1 validation. Worst case scenario is loss of £1 which I can live with. But following this payee setup set-up there's no amendment facility available (except for Reference field).

So now you can adapt this system to get the benefit of CoP at set up for any new payees (with Santander, but not Halifax).

Deleted_User said:

The other possible complication with CoP is that not all accounts can be verified by it. Unless I'm mistaken, all accounts (mainly savings accounts) which require an account number to be entered into "Reference" seem to be CoP incompatible - is that right?

But, until recently I wasn't aware that even some accounts that only need Sort Code & Account number (without anything in Reference) are also not CoP compatible as they are rejected. Once such account was with Coventry Building Society and I found this a bit worrying. Is there any documentation available anywhere that enables me to find out about these CoP incompatible accounts?

Does anyone know of plans to improve the range of accounts which can be validated by CoP?

As you say, there are savings accounts that do not have a unique sort code and account number that may never be able to use CoP, and some providers who do issue unique account numbers who are not part of the scheme. There are options for these providers to make use of an integration service (at cost) to provide this functionality, see https://confirmationofpayee.net/index.php/cop-suppliers-public

Some providers sidestep the issue entirely by using debit card payments or Open Banking.

There is a third scenario when you wouldn't get the benefits of CoP: when the check fails, which in my experience happens from time to time.

eskbanker

Deleted_User said:

The other possible complication with CoP is that not all accounts can be verified by it. Unless I'm mistaken, all accounts (mainly savings accounts) which require an account number to be entered into "Reference" seem to be CoP incompatible - is that right?

But, until recently I wasn't aware that even some accounts that only need Sort Code & Account number (without anything in Reference) are also not CoP compatible as they are rejected. Once such account was with Coventry Building Society and I found this a bit worrying. Is there any documentation available anywhere that enables me to find out about these CoP incompatible accounts?

Does anyone know of plans to improve the range of accounts which can be validated by CoP?

After the inevitable delay due to the C-word, it was only the main six banking groups who were instructed to implement it last year, although some smaller ones apparently voluntarily joined in too since then.  The PSR is consulting on how and when to progress to phase 2, including how to address building society accounts without unique banking account numbers:

https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/confirmation-of-payee

https://www.psr.org.uk/news-updates/latest-news/news/psr-seeks-views-on-next-steps-for-all-banks-to-deliver-confirmation-of-payee/

https://www.psr.org.uk/publications/consultations/cp21-6-confirmation-of-payee-phase-2-call-for-views/

https://www.psr.org.uk/media/ehfnk4qh/cp21-6-confirmation-of-payee-call-for-views.pdf

eskbanker

Deleted_User said:
One of the possible scenarios is where the payee changes their name. So that if Aunty Flo gets married and changes from "Florence Nightingale" to say "Florence Clutterbuck" without changing account number. Will CoP pick this up and reject further payments after that name change?

CoP only applies as a one-off when setting up (or amending) a payee, and isn't activated on subsequent payments.