Paypal chargeback fine despite having receipt. Now debt collectors are involved!

gpurdey92

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

ItsComingRome

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

gpurdey92

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

gpurdey92

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

Via a reputable crypto exchange website

theonlywayisup

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

Not compelling and certainly not sufficient for seller protection.  But it is moot as the case is closed and cannot be reopened.

Paypal's T&C do not trump the law, but their T&C are for their website.  If you do not abide by them and fail to provide sufficient proof of delivery evidence then you will lose a case.  Legal proceedings may be the next course of action.  Does the seller know the name and address of the buyer?

elsien

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

Because the buyer is the one claiming they’ve not received the goods, so that makes the issue with them as your brother appears to be saying the buyer is the one telling porkies. 

What law do you feel PayPal’s terms and conditions are overriding? 

ItsComingRome

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

You don't have solid evidence, as far as PayPal are concerned, that this transaction took place. If you did they wouldn't have refunded the buyer.

You're at the mercy of PayPal's T&C's when it comes to refunds.  If you want to exercise your legal rights it is against the buyer who now has both the money and the crypto.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

hey have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets

Debt collectors is the term typically used for people who bug you for money.

Nobody can seize your assets without taking you to court, winning the claim and then the time allocated by the court to pay has past. 

If that has happened your brother should should either pay or seek professional advice. 

There are lots of reports of people being bugged for Paypal negative balances (I assume you have the funds, Paypal covered the refund and either Paypal or the company they sold the debt to are now chasing the debt). 

I've yet to see any threads were people come back to say they ended up in court but that doesn't mean it never happens.

How much money was the sale for? 

gpurdey92

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

You don't have solid evidence, as far as PayPal are concerned, that this transaction took place. If you did they wouldn't have refunded the buyer.

You're at the mercy of PayPal's T&C's when it comes to refunds.  If you want to exercise your legal rights it is against the buyer who now has both the money and the crypto.

They refunded the buyer due to the 7 day issue - nothing to do with the lack of evidence as it was never presented. We want to present it but they are saying their T & C's mean that we have missed this opportunity. Let me rephrase my question, if we refuse to pay the £800 what do you think may happen? Surely they need to actually prosecute us and then in a court of law we will either have to pay or not? They can't be the judge, jury and executioner.

gpurdey92

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

hey have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets

Debt collectors is the term typically used for people who bug you for money.

Nobody can seize your assets without taking you to court, winning the claim and then the time allocated by the court to pay has past. 

If that has happened your brother should should either pay or seek professional advice. 

There are lots of reports of people being bugged for Paypal negative balances (I assume you have the funds, Paypal covered the refund and either Paypal or the company they sold the debt to are now chasing the debt). 

I've yet to see any threads were people come back to say they ended up in court but that doesn't mean it never happens.

How much money was the sale for? 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

hey have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets

Debt collectors is the term typically used for people who bug you for money.

Nobody can seize your assets without taking you to court, winning the claim and then the time allocated by the court to pay has past. 

If that has happened your brother should should either pay or seek professional advice. 

There are lots of reports of people being bugged for Paypal negative balances (I assume you have the funds, Paypal covered the refund and either Paypal or the company they sold the debt to are now chasing the debt). 

I've yet to see any threads were people come back to say they ended up in court but that doesn't mean it never happens.

How much money was the sale for? 

This is exactly my point. He withdrew the money and the balance was negative after they refunded the £800. Surely they need to now prosecute us via a court system rather then just send over a debt collector after refusing to even listen to our side of the story.

ItsComingRome

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

ItsComingRome said:

gpurdey92 said:

Hello everyone,

I am writing to you because my brother has had an issue with Paypal and I believe it is a scam. He sold a product (bitcoin) to someone and has a receipt for this. The buyer then claimed the item had not arrived and issued a charge back (effectively Paypals term for their money back). Paypal then opened a case which was open for 7 days and in this time my brother had no internet connection so by the time he realised the situation Paypal refunded the money to the person then simply claimed that they wouldn't re-open the case despite the fact he had a receipt. They are acting as if there terms and conditions trump the actual law here, we have spoken to them but they just say unfortunately they don't re-open cases. They have now passed the bill onto a debt collection company. They are now threatening to seize assets, but we have a receipt!?! What can I do in this situation?

Your beef is with the buyer.  PayPal's terms and conditions allow them to pull the money back if you don't have "compelling evidence" that the intangible good or service was delivered.  A receipt is hardly compelling evidence, anyone can write a receipt saying whatever they want.

You need to take the buyer to court to get your money back.  I suspect, however, this is a hacked account so you're unlikely to get anywhere with it.

In future, don't sell intangible goods via PayPal.  Especially when there are reputable crypto exchanges that perform the same service with essentially zero risk.

Hi,

Thanks for the responce.

The goods were sold via a  and the payment was through Paypal, no different to buying off eBay and using Paypal then someone trying to get a refund via Paypal. The receipt is from the website, surely this is compelling evidence? Otherwise a receipt would never be any use in any situation because people would be accused of fabricating them.

What do you mean a hacked account? I am really unsure as to why the issue is with the buyer, it is Paypal who have messed up by giving a refund too hastily. My point is really if I have solid evidence that the buyer received the goods why do Paypal's T and C's of a 7 day appeal period trump the law?

You don't have solid evidence, as far as PayPal are concerned, that this transaction took place. If you did they wouldn't have refunded the buyer.

You're at the mercy of PayPal's T&C's when it comes to refunds.  If you want to exercise your legal rights it is against the buyer who now has both the money and the crypto.

They refunded the buyer due to the 7 day issue - nothing to do with the lack of evidence as it was never presented. We want to present it but they are saying their T & C's mean that we have missed this opportunity. Let me rephrase my question, if we refuse to pay the £800 what do you think may happen? Surely they need to actually prosecute us and then in a court of law we will either have to pay or not? They can't be the judge, jury and executioner.

If you don't pay up the worst-case scenario is you being taken to court, losing and potentially having bailiffs coming around, or garnish wages etc.  To be clear those are absolute worst-case scenarios.

Nobody can say with any certainty whether the DCA that chases this/buys the debt will just eventually let it slide or whether they'll take it further, you're just going to have to roll the dice on that.