Is this boiler flue positioned incorrectly? Engineer won’t issue landlord certificate

tillycat123

I have a 12 year old POTTERTON PROMAX HE boiler,  needing a landlord gas safety certificate.
engineer has issued at at risk notice, as says the flue has been installed incorrectly.

I did not have the instructions for him to see during the visit so he contacted the manufacturer and the distances he is saying as to why won’t issue a certificate do not match the MI instructions for when it was fitted. What he is quoting is way different.

not the best pictures, would you say the flue has been installed per instructions that are also below?

he is telling me measurements Baxi have come back with are completely different to the printed ones in the installation booklet with the boiler.
he says needs to be 200mm below eaves book says 25mm, he says 150mm from downpipe book says 25mm

I need some guidance if anyone can help me here appreciated

https://www.wolseley.co.uk/wcsstore7.00.922.258/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore/images/products/AssetPush/DTP_AssetPushHighRes/std.lang.all/ti/on/Potterton_PromaxCombiHE_Installation.pdf

ComicGeek

This shows it better https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/downloads/gas-hoziontal-and-vertical-flue-terminal-positioning.pdf

Its 25mm minimum below the eaves as long as the boiler flue is extended beyond the line of the gutter - yours isn't, so needs to be either 200mm below eaves or extended out past the gutter.

Should also be minimum 300mm from the corner, which yours isn't. 

Definitely not installed correctly. 

tillycat123

Thanks for clarification, if you might be a gas engineer what would you be saying what needs to be done and roughly at what cost?

This chap wants to replace the whole flue, extend it block air vents and use special paint.

no quote given yet.

thank you

NSG666

Did the engineer advise what is required to enable compliance? e.g. extend the flue beyond the corner?

Edit. Sorry I hadn't seen post above.

Extend the flue sounds right. Not sure which air vents would need blocking nor what the 'special paint' would be for. Probably best to wait for his quote and post the detail of the proposed fix. Bear in mind he'll have seen the whole context of the installation so he might be aware of things not shown in your photos. Don't know what but let's wait?

macman

Wouldn't the simple addition of a plume management kit bring that out beyond the gutter line to make it compliant? My only doubt is the horizontal closeness to the corner.
You haven't stated where the boiler is, or how long the flue run is, but once you start getting into flue replacement, then you are going to have to comply with the more recent regs re flue panel access, if it's currently enclosed. 

ComicGeek

NSG666 said:

Not sure which air vents would need blocking nor what the 'special paint' would be for. 

I'm guessing it's the vent in the bottom of the eaves soffit, shouldn't be that close to the flue. But whether that's required will depend on what the flue solution is anyway.

No idea what this special paint is, interested to find out!

FreeBear

ComicGeek said: No idea what this special paint is, interested to find out!

Most likely an intumescent paint.

TELLIT01

Regulations do change and can seemingly effectively be backdated.  We had a back boiler in our living room and the ventilation to that was vents over our patio doors.  The installation had been done by the previous occupants.  For a number of years the vents were not questioned, then an engineer said they had to be glued open.  A few years later an engineer said they didn't comply with current regs, and a couple of years after that we were told an additional vent would have to knocked through the wall or the system would be condemned as unsafe.  Given that we had been in the house for close on 20 years by that time and suffered no ill effects, the rules were utterly non-sensical but the engineer said he had no choice.

We replaced the backboiler with a combi in the airing cupboard which is actually far more efficient, but that really isn't the point.

jefaz07

ComicGeek said:

This shows it better https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/downloads/gas-hoziontal-and-vertical-flue-terminal-positioning.pdf

Its 25mm minimum below the eaves as long as the boiler flue is extended beyond the line of the gutter - yours isn't, so needs to be either 200mm below eaves or extended out past the gutter.

Should also be minimum 300mm from the corner, which yours isn't. 

Definitely not installed correctly. 

I can't agree....why should it be 300 from a corner?
You don't need to extend beyond the eaves. That is fine!
Youre using a Worcester manual for a Baxi!

Another_Level

Some landlords (not saying the Op is a landlord) but some just have several visits from different trades people issuing compliance paperwork and they chose the paperwork that they like.  Not all compliance visits are done the same way.

The boiler is old, is there historical compliance paperwork available which has taken into account the flue location.? Sometimes additional information is written on the documents to prove the inspection was satisfactory on that visit.

Was the boiler fitted when the building was constructed ?

Looking at the 2 photos (other onsite inspection could justify the flue position is ok) , there is reason to suggest the gas tech is acting correctly but not having the manufacturer's installation information at hand which are on the internet and commenting on paint is something to be considered.

Having the correct installation and servicing information for the actual boiler is important, the boiler will have a gas council number and the installation & servicing instructions will mention that gas council number. Later boilers of the same name could have a different gas council number and totally different installation & servicing instructions.

Similar flue locations could have different dimensions 

New gas boiler with appropriate flueing would be suggested as a remedy. Maybe keep the old boiler -adapt flueing with  a new flue and a plume management kit if available.

Its a 12 year old gas boiler, not many gas tech's will want to research flue part availability or actually carry out what will be quite an expensive flue alteration. 

12 years its getting on 

NSG666

Can't you get whoever has signed it off for the past 11 years to do the Landlord's cert?