Paper Roll Tickets not valid at Euston

NBLondon

marmite1979 said:

Why do I have to buy an Oyster Card and pay again for a journey I paid for already?

As already explained you don't have to pay twice - you just pay the TOC for the travel to a London Terminal then pay TfL for travel in London.  Or at least until you find out definitively whether the paper roll ticket is valid for Underground Travel or not.

marmite1979 said:

By refusing the format and asking the passenger to pay again is discriminating against them as it isn't an equal service that they paid for 

That is a perfectly legal form of discrimination against a person not holding a valid ticket according to their T&C.

Under what legislation/regulation do you think TfL are obliged to accept every form of ticket a TOC might produce?  Or to provide "equal service" on the basis of where someone lives (which isn't London is it?).

If you get a definitive answer from TfL - please do post it here.

marmite1979

NBLondon said:

marmite1979 said:

Why do I have to buy an Oyster Card and pay again for a journey I paid for already?

As already explained you don't have to pay twice - you just pay the TOC for the travel to a London Terminal then pay TfL for travel in London.  Or at least until you find out definitively whether the paper roll ticket is valid for Underground Travel or not.

marmite1979 said:

By refusing the format and asking the passenger to pay again is discriminating against them as it isn't an equal service that they paid for 

That is a perfectly legal form of discrimination against a person not holding a valid ticket according to their T&C.

Under what legislation/regulation do you think TfL are obliged to accept every form of ticket a TOC might produce?  Or to provide "equal service" on the basis of where someone lives (which isn't London is it?).

If you get a definitive answer from TfL - please do post it here.

TFL are a public transport body and just like the TOC'S  have to offer an equal service, refusing a ticket purchased, sold and printed by a conductor is not the fault of the passenger. TFL aren't allowing every customer who passes through London with a valid ticket, there barriers not being able to accept them is not a good enough reason to refuse travel the information is plain to read its for travel through London. 
I've paid for the journey through London as I bought the Paper Roll ticket. Buying an Oyster, using a Bank Card or being charged another way is discrimination as it means I pay twice for the same journey that others who can buy card sized tickets pay once for.

NBLondon

marmite1979 said:

TFL are a public transport body and just like the TOC'S  have to offer an equal service, refusing a ticket purchased, sold and printed by a conductor is not the fault of the passenger. TFL aren't allowing every customer who passes through London with a valid ticket, there barriers not being able to accept them is not a good enough reason to refuse travel the information is plain to read its for travel through London. 
I've paid for the journey through London as I bought the Paper Roll ticket. Buying an Oyster, using a Bank Card or being charged another way is discrimination as it means I pay twice for the same journey that others who can buy card sized tickets pay once for.

You seem to be struggling with the meanings of "discrimination", "valid" and possibly "paid" and "twice".  

You also seem to be avoiding the obvious solution of asking TfL for a definitive answer and sharing it here.

But I guess you'd prefer to whinge and whine?

marmite1979

NBLondon said:

marmite1979 said:

TFL are a public transport body and just like the TOC'S  have to offer an equal service, refusing a ticket purchased, sold and printed by a conductor is not the fault of the passenger. TFL aren't allowing every customer who passes through London with a valid ticket, there barriers not being able to accept them is not a good enough reason to refuse travel the information is plain to read its for travel through London. 
I've paid for the journey through London as I bought the Paper Roll ticket. Buying an Oyster, using a Bank Card or being charged another way is discrimination as it means I pay twice for the same journey that others who can buy card sized tickets pay once for.

You seem to be struggling with the meanings of "discrimination", "valid" and possibly "paid" and "twice".  

You also seem to be avoiding the obvious solution of asking TfL for a definitive answer and sharing it here.

But I guess you'd prefer to whinge and whine?

If the only ticket I can buy is one that is refused by TFL and one that can be bought elsewhere isn't when both those tickets are exactly the same then refusing me travel through London by no fault of mine and that is entirely of the TOC's and TFL's making then I'm being denied equal rights of travel. That is discriminating. The TOC's are encouraging paperless travel by offering E-tickets with QR codes and these are exactly the same as a paper roll ticket. You cannot buy a card ticket from an unstaffed station without a TVM and require either a mobile, a printout of an online ticket or a paper roll ticket off the guard. TFL is preventing me from travelling on an ticket and asking me to pay more due to their inadequacies. 
If two passengers with exactly the same ticket but in different formats enter a tube station one is allowed through unhindered, the other has to request access from staff and can be denied travel due to the format it in, then they have been discriminated against.

KeithP

marmite1979 said:

If two passengers with exactly the same ticket but in different formats enter a tube station one is allowed through unhindered, the other has to request access from staff and can be denied travel due to the format it in, then they have been discriminated against.

That may be true, but is it unlawful discrimination?

Some discrimination is lawful. Some is not.

Here's another example of discrimination, totally unrelated but nevertheless, discrimination...
People under the age of sixteen cannot get married - that is lawful discrimination.


That was a good point that @NBLondon made, wasn't it?...

You also seem to be avoiding the obvious solution of asking TfL for a definitive answer and sharing it here.

NBLondon

marmite1979 said:

If the only ticket I can buy..

It isn't the only ticket you can buy.  It's the most convenient one and the one you want to buy.  But if (as said back in the first reply on page 1)  it isn't valid then no amount of wittering about "equal rights of travel" obliges TfL to accept it; they are perfectly entitled to legally discriminate against a person travelling without a valid ticket.  The problem then is with the ToC wrongly selling it to you.

If the ticket is valid then the TfL gateline staff are mistaken/ misinformed.  Raising this with TfL might get you a definitive answer.  

harz99

In all these comments i'm really surprised nobody has asked where the journey made was from and to...

anotheruser

Why is the OP missing the point here?
The OP has paid for a cross London journey.
The LUL have told the OP they cannot accept the ticket.

To be fair, it [i]may[/i] be the only ticket the OP can buy, IF they buy it on the train and the Train Manager only has the printed roll machines (which most, if not all do these days).

Everything else is more or less irrelevant.

LU are in the wrong here and should have been challenged by the OP.  They were not and the OP feels they are being discriminated against.

OP:  You are not being discriminated against.  You have just been informed wrong, did not challenge this and further refuse to accept if you are to purchase tickets this way, you will have to challenge this if the situation happens again.

You don't hear about this often so it's likely it's an isolated case.

harz99

anotheruser said:

Why is the OP missing the point here?
The OP has paid for a cross London journey.
The LUL have told the OP they cannot accept the ticket.

To be fair, it [i]may[/i] be the only ticket the OP can buy, IF they buy it on the train and the Train Manager only has the printed roll machines (which most, if not all do these days).

Everything else is more or less irrelevant.

LU are in the wrong here and should have been challenged by the OP.  They were not and the OP feels they are being discriminated against.

OP:  You are not being discriminated against.  You have just been informed wrong, did not challenge this and further refuse to accept if you are to purchase tickets this way, you will have to challenge this if the situation happens again.

You don't hear about this often so it's likely it's an isolated case.

Without knowing the actual journey, and sight of the ticket itself, you cannot make those conclusions... 

martindow

OP, have you contacted TfL yet?  It is not clear whether the gateline staff are correct or not to refuse your ticket.  You need a definitive answer from them.