Paper Roll Tickets not valid at Euston

marmite1979

I was stopped exiting the Underground on my final exit of a journey yesterday by Euston Underground staff. Their reason was '' We do not accept Paper Roll Tickets sold by on train staff'' The ticket was valid to use the undergound through London as I'd asked the conductor to sell my one that would.
Every barrier that had QR code scanners accepted the ticket on Saturday on my journey to and every gateline assistant accepted it their and back. It was only the Underground staff member that initally refused exit at London Euston Underground. She let me through as I explained that I cannot buy card tickets off conductors and this is the case for most stations on my home route(And even the Conductors aren't walking the trains to sell tickets anyhow)
Is this rule of ''Not accepting Paper Roll Tickets true? Is she misinformed or unaware?
If its true how is it fair that you cannot use the only option of ticket if you travel on the day from an unstaffed station without a TVM?
The ticket I had is exactly the same as a Mobile Ticket with the QR Code I'd guss you'd need to ask the gateline assistants to allow you through for those to.
If shes correct then what are the TOC's up to selling tickets in a format that cannot be used on a service?

James_Londoner

It's true that TfL don't accept paper roll tickets - but it's also the case that any national rail tickets with validity on the tube shouldn't be issued on a paper roll ticket, so the problem you experience should not have arisen.

The conductor who sold you the ticket should not have done so. 

marmite1979

James_Londoner said:

It's true that TfL don't accept paper roll tickets - but it's also the case that any national rail tickets with validity on the tube shouldn't be issued on a paper roll ticket, so the problem you experience should not have arisen.

The conductor who sold you the ticket should not have done so. 

How do you buy an acceptable ticket then, if you can only buy off a train lor download it onto mobile? Surely its TFL at fault for not accepting a valid ticket when the gateline assistants are there to read it if the machines can't.
Every gate assistant allowed me through only Euston refused until I wouldn't accept there silly reasons and why is the Railway unique in blaming the customer for what is the Railways problem?
TOC and TFL have cocked it up by not agreeing together on a format yet its the passenger who pays and gets held up.

marmite1979

James_Londoner said:

It's true that TfL don't accept paper roll tickets - but it's also the case that any national rail tickets with validity on the tube shouldn't be issued on a paper roll ticket, so the problem you experience should not have arisen.

The conductor who sold you the ticket should not have done so. 

How do you buy an acceptable ticket then, if you can only buy off a train lor download it onto mobile? Surely its TFL at fault for not accepting a valid ticket when the gateline assistants are there to read it if the machines can't.
Every gate assistant allowed me through only Euston refused until I wouldn't accept there silly reasons and why is the Railway unique in blaming the customer for what is the Railways problem?
TOC and TFL have cocked it up by not agreeing together on a format yet its the passenger who pays and gets held up.

Andy_L

James_Londoner said:

It's true that TfL don't accept paper roll tickets - but it's also the case that any national rail tickets with validity on the tube shouldn't be issued on a paper roll ticket, so the problem you experience should not have arisen.

The conductor who sold you the ticket should not have done so. 

Does the conductor have the ability to print a card ticket (so c0cked-up) or is there a gap in the system?

marmite1979

Andy_L said:

James_Londoner said:

It's true that TfL don't accept paper roll tickets - but it's also the case that any national rail tickets with validity on the tube shouldn't be issued on a paper roll ticket, so the problem you experience should not have arisen.

The conductor who sold you the ticket should not have done so. 

Does the conductor have the ability to print a card ticket (so c0cked-up) or is there a gap in the system?

No they don't anymore they used to issue nice barrier, ticket wallet sized, durable card tickets but have decided to use a flimsy, huge, awkward sized ticket that is a pain in the harris. Bit strange that the the main TOC operating into Euston doesn't issue a ticket on train that you can use on the Tube or that station doesn't have barriers that accept QR/Barcodes when everywhere else does. 
So if you live in an area where your first point of purchase is the conductor or buying online and downloading a ticket to your phone(the tickets both are Barcoded/QR) you cannot use the barriers efficiently in London and you risk having to argue with a barrier operator each and every time you exit and enter a tube station.
The only other is to wait and hope you get enough time to use a TVM/Ticket office at a staffed station that's quiet enough and a guard who'll hold the train up while you collect. Or use the post which means planning at least five days in advance. Or even drive 30 miles to collect from your nearest staffed station. 
What a great example of a modern transport system into what's supposed to be one of the most innovative capitals of the world. 
 

esuhl

You are required to buy a valid ticket at the first available opportunity.

If the ticket conductor on the train isn't giving you an opportunity to buy a valid ticket, then... presumably you should wait until you do have that opportunity...?

marmite1979

esuhl said:

You are required to buy a valid ticket at the first available opportunity.

If the ticket conductor on the train isn't giving you an opportunity to buy a valid ticket, then... presumably you should wait until you do have that opportunity...?

The first opportunity is the conductor or you buy online and download the ticket and those formats are only available with a QR code that cannot be used on the Underground then what do you suggest? The onus is on the train companies and TFL to supply you with the correct format and then have facilities that accept them, It shouldn't be the fault of the passenger for not living near a station with ticket facilities.
The attitude of TOCs and TFL is that the passenger is always at fault for not having the correct tickets when this is entirely of their making. They make fares as complicated as they do and restrict travel it puts people off. Other countries make it as easy as possible and aren't on the lookout for mistakes over providing a service.

NBLondon

There is no obligation on the TOC to sell a ticket that is valid on the Underground; so logically, if the conductor doesn't have a machine to sell a suitable ticket; they could/should only sell a ticket to Euston where the passenger can buy a Tube ticket.

Equally - London Transport could make the decision to not accept Paper Roll tickets - but there's then some obligation for them to make this clear to TOC.

However, if the ticket is valid for use on the Underground, but just not readable by that model of gate  - the problem is the gateline staff not understanding this.

marmite1979

NBLondon said:

There is no obligation on the TOC to sell a ticket that is valid on the Underground; so logically, if the conductor doesn't have a machine to sell a suitable ticket; they could/should only sell a ticket to Euston where the passenger can buy a Tube ticket.

Equally - London Transport could make the decision to not accept Paper Roll tickets - but there's then some obligation for them to make this clear to TOC.

However, if the ticket is valid for use on the Underground, but just not readable by that model of gate  - the problem is the gateline staff not understanding this.

It does depend on the discretion of the Underground staff on the barriers. I wasn't aware of the issue until my last exit at Euston where both gateline assistant and her manager said we cannot accept them, she let me through after a debate. I was allowed through all way through to St Pancras on the way to my destination ( Which was unstaffed and had an open gate to leave and open barriers on the return) and the return I had to present the ticket roll to staff all let me through without question.
 I hadn't any choice but to buy off the Avanti Guard due to there not being a TVM at my local, no guard waking through on TFW(They also use Paper Roll) services, and not enough time to get a card ticket on the way. 
But the alternative for passengers in my position is an online ticket, but Websites will not sell it in E-Ticket for through London journeys, you can have it posted if you know far enough in advance that your travelling. 
I think it's discriminatory for those who live outside a reasonable travelling distance of a ticket office. And goes against the ethos of encouraging more on to trains, speed up passage through the Underground and using less paper.

NBLondon

marmite1979 said:

I think it's discriminatory for those who live outside a reasonable travelling distance of a ticket office. And goes against the ethos of encouraging more on to trains, speed up passage through the Underground and using less paper.

Transport for London are discriminating against people who live outside London?  Don't think you'll get far with that as a complaint...  The fact that you can't buy the exact ticket you want/need isn't TfL's problem because they will sell you a Tube ticket at the point of entry to their services.

The question is still whether TfL accept a paper roll ticket or not.

If they do - then the gateline staff are at fault.  You can raise this with TfL.

If they don't - than as James said in the first reply - the ToC is at fault for selling you an invalid ticket.  Maybe inadvertently but raise it with them.