Paper Roll Tickets not valid at Euston

marmite1979

NBLondon said:

marmite1979 said:

I think it's discriminatory for those who live outside a reasonable travelling distance of a ticket office. And goes against the ethos of encouraging more on to trains, speed up passage through the Underground and using less paper.

Transport for London are discriminating against people who live outside London?  Don't think you'll get far with that as a complaint...  The fact that you can't buy the exact ticket you want/need isn't TfL's problem because they will sell you a Tube ticket at the point of entry to their services.

The question is still whether TfL accept a paper roll ticket or not.

If they do - then the gateline staff are at fault.  You can raise this with TfL.

If they don't - than as James said in the first reply - the ToC is at fault for selling you an invalid ticket.  Maybe inadvertently but raise it with them.

Of course they are, TFL are refusing to allow equal access to the Underground with the only ticket format available to purchase by passengers who cannot buy a card formatted ticket. Why should they pay extra just because they cannot, when they've already bought a ticket with through Underground on it. Its not the passengers fault it's TFL for not installing the barriers that accept them and the TOC's for selling a ticket that cannot be used, TFL should in these situations allow equal access through London.

daveyjp

If you want a debate on rail ticketing and systems/procedures take a visit to railforums, they love endless threads on stuff like this this.

NBLondon

marmite1979 said:

Of course they are, TFL are refusing to allow equal access to the Underground with the only ticket format available to purchase by passengers who cannot buy a card formatted ticket. Why should they pay extra just because they cannot, when they've already bought a ticket with through Underground on it. Its not the passengers fault it's TFL for not installing the barriers that accept them and the TOC's for selling a ticket that cannot be used, TFL should in these situations allow equal access through London.

It's not the only format you can buy - you can buy an Oyster card, you can use a contactless credit or debit card.  It's just the only format you can buy from that conductor on that route/service.

TfL are not obliged to design gatelines for every possible ticket format.   If the ticket is valid they are obliged to let you through manually.

If the ticket is not valid, then they are not obliged to accept it and the TOC is at fault for selling it.

Have you tried actually asking TfL?

Jumblebumble

NBLondon said:

marmite1979 said:

I think it's discriminatory for those who live outside a reasonable travelling distance of a ticket office. And goes against the ethos of encouraging more on to trains, speed up passage through the Underground and using less paper.

Transport for London are discriminating against people who live outside London?  Don't think you'll get far with that as a complaint...  The fact that you can't buy the exact ticket you want/need isn't TfL's problem because they will sell you a Tube ticket at the point of entry to their services.

The question is still whether TfL accept a paper roll ticket or not.

If they do - then the gateline staff are at fault.  You can raise this with TfL.

If they don't - than as James said in the first reply - the ToC is at fault for selling you an invalid ticket.  Maybe inadvertently but raise it with them.

Really
Do you think TFL should be allowed to deny the OP travel but trouser the money that will be  handed over to them eventually as part of the "wrong" ticket that was purchased by the OP in good faith ?
Why should the OP pay for the same journey twice ?

marmite1979

NBLondon said:

marmite1979 said:

Of course they are, TFL are refusing to allow equal access to the Underground with the only ticket format available to purchase by passengers who cannot buy a card formatted ticket. Why should they pay extra just because they cannot, when they've already bought a ticket with through Underground on it. Its not the passengers fault it's TFL for not installing the barriers that accept them and the TOC's for selling a ticket that cannot be used, TFL should in these situations allow equal access through London.

It's not the only format you can buy - you can buy an Oyster card, you can use a contactless credit or debit card.  It's just the only format you can buy from that conductor on that route/service.

TfL are not obliged to design gatelines for every possible ticket format.   If the ticket is valid they are obliged to let you through manually.

If the ticket is not valid, then they are not obliged to accept it and the TOC is at fault for selling it.

Have you tried actually asking TfL?

You cannot buy an Oyster card off a conductor and why should I for through London tickets when I've already paid?
Why should I pay twice for a journey that others don't just because the TOC's wont sell a format accepted on TFL  who won't install a barrier that will?
The tickets are valid they are for travel through London. 
TFL reject the two available to those not able to purchase a week in advance, from a TVM or ticket office, its between them and the Tocs to sort out not the passenger and TFL at a gateline.
Yes I have, read the thread  and the Conductor insisted the tickets were valid. one TFL gateline assistant argued it wasn't. 

marmite1979

daveyjp said:

If you want a debate on rail ticketing and systems/procedures take a visit to railforums, they love endless threads on stuff like this this.

10,300 posts you must have a lot of spare time and are they all as pointless as this? 


?

NBLondon

Jumblebumble said:

Really
Do you think TFL should be allowed to deny the OP travel but trouser the money that will be  handed over to them eventually as part of the "wrong" ticket that was purchased by the OP in good faith ?
Why should the OP pay for the same journey twice ?

Yes.  If that ticket is not valid; TfL should be allowed to deny the OP travel.  It may have been purchased in good faith but in that case the TOC is in the wrong and that is where the OP needs to go for a refund.  If the ticket is not valid - can you be sure that the portion of the fare is actually going to be passed to TfL or will it be retained by the TOC?

NBLondon

marmite1979 said:

You cannot buy an Oyster card off a conductor and why should I for through London tickets when I've already paid?

You pay the TOC for the travel to London; then you buy a paper ticket at the Tube station.  Or buy an Oystercard and use it if you make frequent trips.  The paper roll ticket is not your only option - it's just the option that is most convenient for you.  

marmite1979 said:

Why should I pay twice for a journey that others don't just because the TOC's wont sell a format accepted on TFL  who won't install a barrier that will?

As above - there is a way for you not to double-pay.   TfL are not obliged to accept every form of ticket that a TOC might produce.  Conversely, if a TOC sells you a ticket that they say is valid they are obliged to ensure it is acceptable to TfL.

marmite1979 said:

TFL reject the two available to those not able to purchase a week in advance, from a TVM or ticket office, its between them and the Tocs to sort out not the passenger and TFL at a gateline.

TfL are still entitled to accept or reject tickets as they see fit, provided they communicate this to TOCs. They are not obliged to know or care about your ability to purchase certain forms of ticket in your particular location and situation.

marmite1979 said:

The tickets are valid they are for travel through London. 

That hasn't exactly been established yet.  The conductor who sells the ticket says they are but may be mistaken or misinformed.  James_Londoner thinks that form of ticket is not - he may also be mistaken or misinformed.  The organisation that should give you a definitive answer is....   wait for it....   Transport for London.  Have you tried asking them?

marmite1979 said:

Yes I have, read the thread  and the Conductor insisted the tickets were valid. one TFL gateline assistant argued it wasn't. 

In this thread - you appear to have asked a selection of gateline staff, some of whom accepted the ticket and one who did not.  If the ticket is valid but not readable by the barriers then you should have been let through manually and the dissenting staff member maybe mistaken or misinformed.

Why not try asking TfL Customer Services?  If they confirm the ticket is valid whatever the format - then you can advise them about retraining staff and carry on as before.  If they advise that a paper roll ticket is not valid - then you can take it up with the TOC.

If the question is "Is this ticket valid on the Tube?" then TfL's answer overrules what the train conductor says...

marmite1979

NBLondon said:

marmite1979 said:

You cannot buy an Oyster card off a conductor and why should I for through London tickets when I've already paid?

You pay the TOC for the travel to London; then you buy a paper ticket at the Tube station.  Or buy an Oystercard and use it if you make frequent trips.  The paper roll ticket is not your only option - it's just the option that is most convenient for you.  

marmite1979 said:

Why should I pay twice for a journey that others don't just because the TOC's wont sell a format accepted on TFL  who won't install a barrier that will?

As above - there is a way for you not to double-pay.   TfL are not obliged to accept every form of ticket that a TOC might produce.  Conversely, if a TOC sells you a ticket that they say is valid they are obliged to ensure it is acceptable to TfL.

marmite1979 said:

TFL reject the two available to those not able to purchase a week in advance, from a TVM or ticket office, its between them and the Tocs to sort out not the passenger and TFL at a gateline.

TfL are still entitled to accept or reject tickets as they see fit, provided they communicate this to TOCs. They are not obliged to know or care about your ability to purchase certain forms of ticket in your particular location and situation.

marmite1979 said:

The tickets are valid they are for travel through London. 

That hasn't exactly been established yet.  The conductor who sells the ticket says they are but may be mistaken or misinformed.  James_Londoner thinks that form of ticket is not - he may also be mistaken or misinformed.  The organisation that should give you a definitive answer is....   wait for it....   Transport for London.  Have you tried asking them?

marmite1979 said:

Yes I have, read the thread  and the Conductor insisted the tickets were valid. one TFL gateline assistant argued it wasn't. 

In this thread - you appear to have asked a selection of gateline staff, some of whom accepted the ticket and one who did not.  If the ticket is valid but not readable by the barriers then you should have been let through manually and the dissenting staff member maybe mistaken or misinformed.

Why not try asking TfL Customer Services?  If they confirm the ticket is valid whatever the format - then you can advise them about retraining staff and carry on as before.  If they advise that a paper roll ticket is not valid - then you can take it up with the TOC.

If the question is "Is this ticket valid on the Tube?" then TfL's answer overrules what the train conductor says...

Why do I have to buy an Oyster Card and pay again for a journey I paid for already?
Passengers who can buy off a TVM or Ticket Office do not.
The tickets are valid they are for travel through London they are just formatted differently to card tickets Mobile tickets are formatted the same way as Paper Roll tickets. The problem is TFL not upgrading their barriers and instructing there staff correctly.
If they were not valid then the other gateline staff wouldn't have allowed me through and instructed me to pay the correct fare.
 
The problem isn't the passengers but that is how TOC's and TFL work they are always right even when they are wrong. It's far easier for them to dismiss a ticket they don't understand and then force you to paying again than it is to chase up a refund once you've taken them on and proven they are at fault.
I've contacted both TOC and TFL. 
TFL over ruling the TOC's only available format of ticket for passengers who cannot get card sized tickets. The problem is not the passenger it's between TFL and the TOC's.
By refusing the format and asking the passenger to pay again is discriminating against them as it isn't an equal service that they paid for 

KeithP

Have you asked London Travel Watch or Transport Focus?