Multiple Laptop Set up

Grumpy_chap

So, WFH for a long time now and I have multiple Clients.  Normally I manage to get access to all the IT I need through my own laptop, but lately I have two Clients who insist on using their own laptops for security reasons. That is entirely reasonable, but with three laptops, and swapping leads between one monitor is all rather a palaver.

I have looked at the idea of a KVM switch, but also considering a new monitor and then individual USB wireless keyboard / mouse for each machine.  Hard to filter for monitors that have multiple inputs, but there are some available.

What size of monitor do I choose?  Is that largely personal preference, or is there a guide based upon distance from seating position?  I currently have an aged 19" (square) monitor (16" wide, 13" tall) so thinking a 24" monitor would be about the same height but just wider, around 21/21".  With a new monitor I would also be getting better quality display and higher Hz refresh rate, so it would be better for my eyes I suppose.

If a monitor has multiple inputs, do they have simple switches on the front to switch "channels" (as it were)?  Do the monitors allow different laptops to be shown at the same time in different windows?

Is a monitor, a monitor, or are there better / worse makes?  What are the important features?

Is a multi-input monitor, but then a simpler switch between the laptops for just the keyboard and mouse an option?  
If I had more than one wireless keyboard / mouse near each other, would they get confused?  I assume not as offices would have many wireless mice/keyboards all nearby pre-COVID.

Finally, and it's not a technical query, but how is there a simple way to have the actual laptop base stations arranged so they do not dominate the space on the desk?

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Neil_Jones

Um... I don't follow.

If your clients use their own laptops, why do you need a KVM switch?

Grumpy_chap

Three laptops on the desk. 

My own laptop is 17" screen, connected to the monitor.

The Client laptops have small screens (13" & 11") which are too small to work on for long periods.  So I plug them into the monitor in place of my own laptop.  Lots of swapping leads between the laptop and the monitor.

I also swap the USB dongle for the wireless keyboard and mouse between the laptops.  That's obviously much easier than swapping the monitor lead which is far less accessible.

Today I feel I spent more time swapping leads than working.

debitcardmayhem

RDP/VNC/Teamviewer ?

Grumpy_chap

debitcardmayhem said:

RDP/VNC/Teamviewer ?

Thanks, but what do those initials mean please?

For the Client laptops, I cannot add any kind of software as they are locked for security.  The ports do work though, so I can plug them into the monitor and also the USB dongle for the wireless keyboard / mouse works.

I'll try to describe the set up a bit more clearly.

1. I have my laptop to the left and sit with the monitor and keyboard straight ahead.
2.  In addition I have two Client laptops, which are both small screen, too small to comfortably work on for long periods.
3.  During the day, I need to keep all three online so that I can check e-mails and respond promptly if anything arrives.
4.  When working on one of the Client laptops for a task, rather than simply monitoring e-mail, I swap the monitor leads and also the wireless keyboard/mouse dongle.
5.  I'd like to have a system that allows me to still sit at the desk with the laptop ahead and use the wireless keyboard and mouse.  Swapping the monitor leads is rather inconvenient.  Swapping the keyboard / mouse is easier as it is simply a USB dongle moving between machines.  I could also live with a system using multiple wireless keyboards / mice.
6.  Space is generous for a home set up, but I'd also like to find a way to arrange the three laptop that does not consume so much desk space.  None of the laptops have docking stations so they all need to be open to be on.

Neil_Jones

But if you're working from home, where have the two client laptops come from?

I think the issue here is your choice of language. Are we talking "client" as in customer?  Are those laptops belonging to your customers or customers of the workplace or similar?  Or are we talking client as in you have (yourself, work or otherwise) three laptops and the "client" machines effectively do something else that your main laptop talks to them?  Or are they just three laptops that do three different (presumably work) jobs?

GunJack

Neil_Jones said:

But if you're working from home, where have the two client laptops come from?

I think the issue here is your choice of language. Are we talking "client" as in customer?  Are those laptops belonging to your customers or customers of the workplace or similar?  Or are we talking client as in you have (yourself, work or otherwise) three laptops and the "client" machines effectively do something else that your main laptop talks to them?  Or are they just three laptops that do three different (presumably work) jobs?

Stop trying to over complicate it..... it's very obvious what the problem is (and I sympathize, know exactly where the OP is coming from) and there isn't an easy solution. 

A kvm setup is probably the closest you'll get to what you need, but with very careful positioning on your desk space and possibly even a shelf above the desk for your monitor to give room for the 3 lappys and keyboard and mouse

Grumpy_chap

Good morning and thankyou @Neil_Jones and @GunJack

I understand the confusion with terminology and it is obvious - now you point it out - that this could happen in a Techie Forum. 
I have used the phrase "Client" in a non-technical, commercial context to mean "customer". 
Not "Client" in an IT context as in "Client-Server" or "Slave-Master" relationship.

I work as a consultant through my own company and IT can be managed in different ways:

• I do the work on my own system, fully responsible for back up etc., and then once the work is done provide a report and all project data sent across the the customer in a zip file.  Most common.
• Some customers require that work is stored on their systems and allow virtually unrestricted access to their business systems, only password protection.
• Some customers require work on their systems and provide VPN access.
• Some customers require work on their systems and operate Citrix so access is via Citrix Gateway - this is quite possibly the best system as once you are in, the window is entirely operating on their system and no crossover to my external-to-the-customer system.
• Occasionally I get customers who provide a laptop as the means to access the customer system.  It makes perfect sense from an IT security point of view.  This has been quite rare in the past and only ever for short (week or two) projects so I make do with the less than optimal ergonomics.  
• However, recently, I have two customers who provided their own laptops as the only means of access to the customer systems and want all the work done on those - the customers have cited IT security (reasonable) and also the fact they deemed the work inside-IR35 (not reasonable) as reasons why it has to be this way.  In fact one of these two is short-term, so poor ergonomics I can live with, the other is expected to be longer term work so I would like to get that one at lease set up more simply with the main laptop and avoid lots of lead switching etc.  If I am spending money to get the better set up, worth spending enough to give spare capacity for "future" proofing if practicable.

Hopefully the above explains where the Client (customer) laptops come from.

So, what I have is the desk, with my laptop to the left and the monitor, keyboard and mouse positioned for ergonomics, ease of use and efficiency.  Also a webcam plus headset, for Teams / Webex calls.
Then two customer laptops, which sit wherever I can put them and plugging them in for use means switching leads to the monitor etc, or moving the laptop to in front of the monitor stand if for a quick and simple task.
I'd like to now find a way to make the switching between items all quicker and easier, and to tidy desk space.

Before posting here, I did some own research but failed to really put a solution together.  I then visited the local IT specialist with a shop on the High Street (not Curry's, an independent repair / retail place) and discussed KVM options only to be told that was a bad idea and KVM switches were ancient technology from the 1990's and inherently unreliable.  When I then asked "OK, what alternative do you propose?" he just shrugged.

Given that I should probably replace my monitor anyway, I then thought to get a monitor that has multiple inputs, but they are not as readily available as I expected.  This surprised me, as a TV has more inputs than you can count.  It would also be easy enough to have separate wireless keyboard/mouse sets (so long as the signals won't interfere).

While I am updating things, I should probably also do something to backup my own systems better, as this is adhoc at present and leaves me exposed.  I do have a NAS drive, but never managed to find good software to do the back-up automatically and effortlessly.  Is there anyone who can make a good recommendation on that?

Neil_Jones

I beg to differ with Citrix, pain in the backside it was for working from purposes but that's beside the point..

Monitors aren't really designed to have multiple input sources to switch between like a TV would depending on the device you use.  They usually only have them for legacy/compatibility reasons, so you don't have to replace the computer just because you bought a new monitor with a non legacy connection.  So you tend to have to either stick with one input or manually switch on the control panel on the monitor, they rarely switch just because you switch another computer on.  If you're doing that you might as well just use a TV that can auto switch source and connect everything up via HDMI.

There are multi-way KVM switches you can get but the bulk of them are just for two computers and they probably won't be the least bit interested in wireless dongles for keyboards and mice, they tend to insist on wired connections.

Re: The NAS - for data and documents, your standard copy and paste will do the job.  System images, the built-in backup will do that.  Not sure if it will work over NAS/mapped drives but you can always get external hard drives and back up to that.

Grumpy_chap

Neil_Jones said:

you might as well just use a TV

I always assumed that a TV would be second-best in terms of useability as a monitor in terms of screen display quality, refresh rate etc.  For display of work documents rather than TV programme graphics.

TVs are cheaper than monitors.

[Deleted User]

Interesting problems and as you say not an easy solution but I'll give it a go.

First a few questions that might rule in/out various options:

1. Do you need all 3 screens on visible at the same time to actively monitor them or would you be happy just seeing one screen and switching when needed? The reason I ask this is that the laptops could be configured to stay powered on in a lid down position so you could stack them out of the way on your desk to clear some space.

2. Is your main laptop running Windows Pro / Enterprise? If so, then you could use remote desktop from your main laptop to access the two client desktops - if you got a big enough screen you could even display all 3 remote desktop sessions on the same screen. This would work brilliantly with the lid down option above. Possible that the clients have disabled remote desktop for security reasons but it is just a few clicks to see if it is enabled.

3. An off the wall option would be to virtualise the hard disks from the 2 client laptops and run them as virtual machines in Hyper-V on your main laptop - however it might not work depending on how the clients have configured security on those laptops but I've done this reliably in the past.

4. What display output options are on all 3 laptops - DV / HDMI etc?

Not withstanding the answers to the above, this is how I would approach the situation:

1. The KVM option, it is still a valid option but it would not be cheap, most are 2 input devices but this 4 input device would do the trick. I'd recommend configuring all 3 laptops to remain powered on in lid down mode so you can stack them up on the desk and give you space:

A HDMI cheap one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switch-HDMI-USB2-0-Monitor-HDCP2-2/dp/B0919JSWTM

StarTech are a reputable UK company selling good quality KVM solutions but they do get a bit pricey - looking at £600 for an HDMI one or £400 for display port.

https://www.startech.com/en-gb/server-management/kvm-switches

2. The multiple inputs to the monitor solution - so as you say most monitors only have 1 of each type of input usually so you probably won't find one with 3 HDMI inputs for example. You might find a monitor with say HDMI, display port and VGA inputs giving you 3 in total and then you could use convertor cables for each laptop to use each input. The VGA one of course will be analogue quality and might not hit the highest resolutions and colour depths.

A neater solution would be a HDMI switch box:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-4-Port-HDMI-Switch/dp/B06XJCBWL5

And use a wireless keyboard and mouse and just switch the dongle over when needed.

Or find one that will connect to multiple machines, my Logitech MX Master 3 mouse will connect to 3 different machines / dongles and there is a button underneath that switches between each machine as needed, I think they do a keyboard with this feature as well.


3. You asked about monitors - just some general advice for doing technical home working - a dual screen setup is much more productive than 1 big monitor, I have 2x24" HP monitors on my desk on risers to free up desk space underneath. Really good when you are doing screen share sessions on a webcam conference because you can share one screen and have the other for the web conference view both on the go.

If you did a dual screen setup, then you could still do the KVM option or HDMI switch on one of the monitors as well.

Don't use a TV as your monitor as suggested above - too many reasons to add to this already long reply.

4. Backup - don't think about this any longer, implement it today please.

Here are the easiest options for backup:

a) Windows 10 file history - you can point this at your NAS or an external USB drive. It is really useful because it keeps previous versions of the files which is a life saver when the most recent becomes corrupted. I have file history set up to auto backup every hour and it has no impact on my machine as it will only version the files that have changed since last backup. Don't do copy and paste as somebody suggested above - it will end in tears when you have a corrupt document that you have just overwritten on your backup. And you need to remember to do it regularly - automatic versioned backups are the only proper way to do it and it is all built into Windows for free.

b) A cloud based backup service - Backblaze for example, pay a fixed fee and backup your machine to the cloud.

If this is data for your business I highly recommend both options, I backup my laptop to my QNAP 16TB RAID 5 NAS as per above. My NAS also backs itself up nightly to an attached USB drive (12 TB Seagate). The NAS also backs up the most important data monthly to Amazon Glacier as well - about 1 TB of documents, photos, home videos, music. I leave my 10TB of movies/TV shows just to the local dual backup only as it would get expensive to store in the cloud and I can always re-obtain those if needed.

Please do the backup thing today, there is another thread on this forum about getting hard disk recovery services which is likely to cost around £500+ as well as the downtime, don't risk it.