ESA50 contact - found !

[Deleted User]

Confirmed by JCP! ¦

I can confirm you are now in the support Group and will be awarded national insurance contribution credits.

That's good 

poppy12345

Deleted_User said:

Confirmed by JCP! ¦

I can confirm you are now in the support Group and will be awarded national insurance contribution credits.

That's good 

Which was exactly what others here advised you.

Spoonie_Turtle

poppy12345 said:

Deleted_User said:

Confirmed by JCP! ¦

I can confirm you are now in the support Group and will be awarded national insurance contribution credits.

That's good 

Which was exactly what others here advised you.

Always reassuring to have confirmation that the different parts of DWP know what's going on though, to be fair

[Deleted User]

I have a question over the use of "aids" such as a sock puller (without this - I do struggle to get my socks on..........) -  it appears to be in my favour in terms of "needing" assistance / I can come up with a list of vital equipment that I use to get by from day to day (much as in ESA) but will they look at this and say "He has no problems getting dressed...?"

Similarly - grab rails around my house and even leg braces - without them, I am totally immobile but with them, I am able to get around my house better...

My aids are not everyday items (like a rubber pan handle) but are designed specifically for me

It says

"2.0.1 This document outlines the assessment criteria for Personal Independence Payment (PIP). It explains how the assessment is structured, including how the activities and descriptors fit together to determine entitlement to each of the 2 components. It also includes the assessment criteria themselves and guidance for health professionals (HPs) on how to apply them.

2.1 Applying the criteria

2.1.1 A health condition or impairment may be physical, sensory, mental, intellectual or cognitive, or any combination of these. The impact of all impairment types must be taken into account across the activities, where they affect a claimant’s ability to complete the activity and achieve the stated outcome. For example, a claimant with a severe depressive illness may physically be able to prepare food and feed himself, but may lack the motivation to do so, to the extent of needing prompting from another person to carry out the task. However, some activities focus on specific elements of function. For example, ‘moving around’ relates to the physical aspects of walking.

Descriptor choice

2.1.2 When assessing a claimant, the HP should consider all the evidence of the case and the likely ability of the claimant over a year-long period, before selecting the most appropriate descriptor to the claimant relating to each of the assessment activities, taking into account their level of ability, whether they need to use aids or appliances and whether they need help from another person or an assistance dog.

2.1.3 In choosing descriptors, the HP should use their specific knowledge of the health condition or impairment as a measure of the level of disability that would be expected from the claimant's condition. For example, it is unlikely that mechanical low back pain is unremitting day after day because the natural history is of pain that varies from day to day, and it would be appropriate to make this observation in the report. However, it is insufficient for the HP to argue just from the general principle when justifying descriptor choices; the evidence has to relate to the specific claimant.

2.1.4 The fact that a claimant can complete an activity is not sufficient evidence of ability. HPs must consider:

• approach – what the claimant needs to do; how they carry out the task; what assistance or aids are required; how long it takes; whether they can do it whenever they need to; and whether it is safe

• outcome – whether the activity can be successfully completed and the standard that is achieved

• impact – what the effects of reaching the outcome has on the claimant and, where relevant, others; and whether the claimant can repeat the activity within a reasonable period of time and to the same standard (this clearly includes consideration of symptoms such as pain, discomfort, breathlessness, fatigue and anxiety). The impact of completing one activity on the ability to complete others must also be considered.

• variability – how a claimant’s approach and outcomes and level of functional restriction change over time and the impact this has on them

2.1.5 HPs should not consider the point scores associated with descriptors or whether these will confer entitlement to the benefit if chosen by the DWP’s case managers (CMs). HPs should only consider whether the descriptor is appropriate to the claimant’s circumstances.

Reliability

2.1.6 For a descriptor to be able to apply to a claimant, the claimant must be able to reliably complete the activity as described in the descriptor. More information on this can be found in section 2.2.

Time periods, fluctuations and descriptor choices

2.1.7 The impact of most health conditions and impairments can fluctuate over time. Taking a view of ability over a longer period of time helps to iron out fluctuations and presents a more coherent picture of disabling effects. Therefore, the descriptor choice should be based on consideration of a 12 month period. This should correlate with the qualifying period and prospective test for the benefit – so the HP should broadly consider the claimant’s likely ability in the 3 months before the assessment and in the 9 months after.

2.1.8 A scoring descriptor can apply to claimants in an activity where their impairment(s) affects their ability to complete an activity, at some stage of the day, on more than 50 per cent of days in the 12 month period. The following rules apply.

2.1.9 If one descriptor in an activity is likely to apply on more than 50 per cent of the days in the 12 month period – i.e. the activity can be completed in the way described on more than 50 per cent of days – then that descriptor should be chosen.

2.1.10 If 2 or more descriptors in an activity are likely to apply on more than 50 per cent of the days in the period then the descriptor chosen should be the one which is the highest scoring.

2.1.11 Where one single descriptor in an activity is likely to not be satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, but a number of different scoring descriptors in that activity cumulatively are likely to be satisfied on more than 50 per cent of days, the descriptor likely to be satisfied for or example, if descriptor B is likely to be satisfied on 40 per cent of days and descriptor C on 30 per cent of days, descriptor B should be chosen. Where 2 or more descriptors are satisfied for the same proportion of days, the descriptor which is the highest scoring should be chosen.

2.1.12 If there is evidence that someone is awaiting treatment or further intervention HPs should take into account the facts and likely impact of that future treatment regime as they’re evidenced at the date of the assessment, as part of their consideration of whether the person will meet the prospective part of the required period condition.

2.1.13 The timing of the activity should be considered i.e. whether the claimant can carry out the activity when they need to do it. For example getting washed and dressed usually happens in the morning. For example If a claimant takes medication (such as painkillers) allows the individual to carry out activities reliably when they need to throughout the day then the claimant can still complete the activity reliably when required. For example, if a claimant takes painkillers as soon as they wake and they can get washed and dressed soon afterwards they would not score under these activities.

2.1.14 If however, the medication did not start to work for a significant period such as to delay the claimant going about their daily business then the HP should consider a scoring descriptor. For example, if a claimant takes painkillers as soon as they wake but they have to delay the task of getting washed and dressed for 2 hours until the painkillers take effect then the HP should consider what help is required to carry out the activities reliably at the time the claimant would normally carry out those activities.

Risk and safety

2.1.15 When considering whether an activity can be undertaken safely, it is necessary to consider the likelihood of harm occurring and the severity of the harm that might occur. It is a common sense approach that when the severity of harm is high a lower risk is acceptable. When the harm is minor it may be acceptable for the likelihood of that harm occurring to be higher.

Support from other people

2.1.16 The assessment takes into account where claimants need the support of another person or persons to carry out an activity, including where that person has to carry out the activity for the claimant in its entirety. The criteria refer to various types of support:

• supervision – A need for the continuous presence of another person for the purpose of ensuring the claimant’s safety to avoid a harm occurring. It is necessary to consider both the likelihood of a serious adverse event occurring, and the severity of the harm that might occur. To apply, supervision must be required for the full duration of the activity

• prompting – Support provided by another person by reminding or encouraging a claimant to undertake or complete a task or explaining it to them but not physically helping them. To apply, this only needs to be required for part of the activity

• assistance – Support that requires the presence and physical intervention of another person to help the claimant complete the activity, including doing some, but not all of the activity in question. To apply, this only needs to be required for part of the activity

2.1.17 A number of descriptors also refer to another person being required to complete the activity in its entirety. These descriptors would apply where the claimant is unable to undertake any of the activity for themselves, even with help.

2.1.18 The assessment does not look at the availability of help from another person but rather at the underlying need. As such, claimants may be awarded descriptors for needing help even if it is not currently available to them – for example, if they currently manage in a way that is unreliable, but with some help they could complete the activity reliably.

Aids and appliances

2.1.19 The assessment considers the varying stages of independence when undertaking daily living and mobility activities, from complete independence at one end of the scale to being unable to complete the activity at all, or without assistance at the other. For some activities, claimants will be able to exert a significant degree of independence by using an aid or appliance in order to help them to complete the activity.

2.1.20 In this context:

• aids and appliances are devices which improve, provide or replace the claimant’s impaired physical or mental function, for example walking sticks to enable a claimant to move reliably, grab rails to assist with balance, wheelchairs to replace mobilising or liquid level indicators to substitute for sight when pouring liquid

2.1.21 For the purpose of the PIP assessment, aids and appliances may be everyday objects, but whether they’re considered as aids in any particular case depends on how the claimant uses the object compared to how (if at all) it might typically be used by someone with no relevant impairment. Where the object would usually or normally be used in the same way by someone without any limitation in carrying out the relevant activity, it is unlikely to be considered an aid or appliance, for example sitting on a bed whilst getting dressed or using a pan with a rubber-grip handle when cooking. In those instances where claimants make use of such items, they should be scored as being able to complete the activity unaided."

Spoonie_Turtle

If you are deemed to be able to complete the activity reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner using aids (but requiring aids to do so), then you will score the appropriate descriptor for the activity, usually the one that gives 2 points.

[Deleted User]

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If you are deemed to be able to complete the activity reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner using aids (but requiring aids to do so), then you will score the appropriate descriptor for the activity, usually the one that gives 2 points.

Under what circumstamces does ANYONE score enough points to achieve enhanced rate Mobility PIP ?

Because - even without legs - they are going to say "wheelchair" or even prothesis - as a way around the disability - thats 2 points ?

According to Stats - https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-april-2021/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-april-2021  "Just over one third (34%) of all claims with entitlement to PIP as at 30th April 2021 receive the highest level of award, with both daily living and mobility components received at the enhanced rate."

poppy12345

Deleted_User said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If you are deemed to be able to complete the activity reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner using aids (but requiring aids to do so), then you will score the appropriate descriptor for the activity, usually the one that gives 2 points.

Under what circumstamces does ANYONE score enough points to achieve enhanced rate Mobility PIP ?

Because - even without legs - they are going to say "wheelchair" or even prothesis - as a way around the disability - thats 2 points ?

I can only assume that you haven't fully read all the links that were posted. If you had you would have seen that the mobility part assesses your ability to stand and move. If a person has no legs then they clearly can't stand or move so 12F would apply which would be 12 points.

Descriptor F (12 points): Cannot, either aided or unaided:
i. stand; or
ii. move more than 1 metre

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

Stand and then move’ requires an individual to stand and then move independently while remaining standing. It does not include a claimant who stands and then transfers into a wheelchair or similar device. Individuals who require a wheelchair or similar device to move a distance should not be considered able to stand and move that distance.

[Deleted User]

poppy12345 said:

Deleted_User said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

If you are deemed to be able to complete the activity reliably, repeatedly and in a timely manner using aids (but requiring aids to do so), then you will score the appropriate descriptor for the activity, usually the one that gives 2 points.

Under what circumstamces does ANYONE score enough points to achieve enhanced rate Mobility PIP ?

Because - even without legs - they are going to say "wheelchair" or even prothesis - as a way around the disability - thats 2 points ?

I can only assume that you haven't fully read all the links that were posted. If you had you would have seen that the mobility part assesses your ability to stand and move. If a person has no legs then they clearly can't stand or move so 12F would apply which would be 12 points.

Descriptor F (12 points): Cannot, either aided or unaided:
i. stand; or
ii. move more than 1 metre

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

Stand and then move’ requires an individual to stand and then move independently while remaining standing. It does not include a claimant who stands and then transfers into a wheelchair or similar device. Individuals who require a wheelchair or similar device to move a distance should not be considered able to stand and move that distance.

I did see that bit - but am confused whether or not it applies to me - since I can stand but, without aids cannot move repeatedly 1 metre - I often have to crawl to the toilet (on my hands and knees)

Does this section specifically apply to those unfortunate not to have limb(s) or does it apply generally to anyone with mobility problems ?

It is the wording that is designed to confuse

Spoonie_Turtle

The activity assessment includes whether it's to an acceptable standard and your pace.  So yes mobility looks at whether you can do it with aids (e.g. crutches, rollator) but if it's something like swinging through both legs together, or would be recognised as painful shuffling rather than walking, it's not walking to an acceptable standard.  If it exacerbates symptoms such that you can't repeat it, it's not to an acceptable standard.  If it takes you more than twice as long as it would take an average nondisabled person, it's not in a timely manner.

https://pipinfo.net/activities/moving-around

Activity 2 considers a claimant’s physical ability to move around without severe discomfort, such as breathlessness, pain or fatigue. This includes the ability to stand and then move up to 20 metres, up to 50 metres, up to 200 metres and over 200 metres. As with all the other activities, a claimant is to be assessed as satisfying a descriptor only if they can do so reliably.

https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

Reliably: The meaning of "reliably" is defined in regulations.

Regulation 4(2A) of the main PIP regulations provides -

Where [a claimant's] ability to carry out an activity is assessed, [the claimant] is to be assessed as satisfying a descriptor only if [the claimant] can do so - (a) safely; (b) to an acceptable standard; (c) repeatedly; and (d) within a reasonable time period.

Regulation 4(4) of the main PIP regulations provides -

1. "safely” means in a manner unlikely to cause harm to [the claimant] or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity;
2. “repeatedly” means as often as the activity being assessed is reasonably required to be completed; and
3. “reasonable time period” means no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that person’s ability to carry out the activity in question would normally take to complete that activity.

(Can't get the formatting back to normal - this is me now, not quoting)
I cannot remember the distances/times used for 'reasonable time period' but you will know yourself, if your steps are incredibly slow and laboured then there is no way it can be argued you can cover distances in a reasonable time.

Spoonie_Turtle

(Sorry for the double post but that formatting will drive me nuts if I try to edit this into my previous.)

Further, from the guidance poppy linked:

"Aids or appliances that a person uses to support their physical mobility may include walking sticks, crutches and prostheses.

When assessing whether the activity can be carried out reliably, consideration should be given to the manner in which the activity is completed. This includes, but is not limited to, the claimant’s gait, their speed, the risk of falls and symptoms or side effects that could affect their ability to complete the activity, such as pain, breathlessness and fatigue. However, for this activity, this only refers to the physical act of moving."

So, you need to think about how far you can walk with any appropriate aids before needing to stop and/or sit down, how far that is and how long it takes, and what effects that has on your symptoms.  You also need to consider whether you could repeat it after a short rest or not.  

Think about how a nondisabled person moves freely around their house, how often they move about in a typical day to get something from the next room, pop in and out of the kitchen to get a drink or a snack, how freely they go to the toilet whenever they want and need, doing housework, tidying away, getting to thr front door for the post, going out into the garden.  That is realistically the standard for repeating the short distances "as often as is reasonably required".