Contesting a Will as Next-of-Kin

RomfordNavy

maman said:

Yes, @BooJewels, it sounds like you've been through a dreadful time and I can understand the situations you've posted about.

I think it's the mercenary tone of OP's posts that cause comments, where everyone sounds entitled and unwilling to do anything for their relative unless they are recompensed. 

Thats because there appears to be a number of people on here more willing to make their own judgments on the situation without understanding the full picture.

RomfordNavy

sheramber said:

So a family/friends who visited daily before covid did not know who his doctor was, did not know who his close friend was. did nothing to find out what hospital he  was in.

Covid or not, if I was close to a relative I would have travelled to find out where he was when contact was stopped. Travelling to support a vulnerable person was allowed.

Where are you getting this crap from, who said anything about covid?

sheramber said:

How did they know what his death bed wishes were, that cost them money?

It couldn't have been from the will as they did that before they knew they would not inherit.

Because these things were arranged face-to-face in the final weeks of life, what is it you find so difficult to understand?

RomfordNavy

Manxman_in_exile said:

I'm wondering - and this is pure speculation on my part - whether the friend arranged for the cousin to get a new will drawn up and whether the friend might have paid for that?  As I say, pure speculation, but I find it difficult to think what other final wishes the friend could have paid for which would then cause them to renounce the executorship.

The friend arranged for the Solicitor to visit to do the Will.  The deceased was asking for the friend to chase-up equity release on a property so as to pay for it.  In the end the friend offered to pay for the solicitor as it was clearly causing distress.  There were also other significant costs related to what we will now call a hobby.

74jax

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

The close friends were there virtually daily.

But you said you couldn't visit because of covid?  Do you mean you didn't want to travel to visit? Which is entirely different?

To contest this Will, you really need to show a timeline so we can help you, as none of this is making sense. 

I never said I couldn't visit because of covid, where did you get that from.

You said. -

Had not seen the deceased for over a year due to Covid

So strangely I took to this to read you hadn't visited due to covid - how else would I read your sentence?

Manxman_in_exile

maman said:

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

The close friends were there virtually daily.  Some of them have incurred significant costs carrying out the deceased wishes but none got even a mention in the final Will.

I know you've mentioned this before but this is really normal.
You obviously don't do things for friends or family during palative stages hoping they will include you in the will. You carry out wishes as you are close and want too. 

When those tasks involve significant cost I can understand why those friends expected to get some gratuity to cover the costs.

Lets the the case of the friend who arranged the Solicitor to do the Will.  The now deceased was under pressure from the Nurses to get a Will written, they had asked said friend to chase-up partially completed equity release on a property to cover the cost of having the Will written.  As this was obviously causing qute a bit of distress, in the end the friend said don't worry about the cost I will pay for it and arranged for Solicitors to visit.  I don't think it unreasonable for that friend to have quite reasonably expected some small gratuity to cover the those costs.  You have to bear in mind that the deceased was very independent and all ways has been, they would never ask anyone to do something without paying them.

For me, there's a difference.  The deceased, in their lifetime, could run up a bill with a solicitor or care home or  Sky tv or anyone else and independently  pay their way. If the bills were outstanding after death then they would, quite legitimately, be paid from the estate.

A payment for doing someone a favour and perhaps recommending and contacting a solicitor and arranging an appointment is not something I'd expect recompense for or to be written into a will.  That was choice to volunteer to pay. 

I think I agree.  The solicitor should have invoiced the cousin (because they were still alive at the time they gave instructions!) and claimed against the estate if necessary.  If I'd have been the "friend" I would only have agreed to voluntarily pay any fees in respect of drawing up the will on the understanding that I might very well never get reimbursed.

If the OP is now in the mess they are in because this friend has renounced their executorship and nobody can now authorise a funeral, then the friend is responsible.

The OP needs to let the NHS or the local authority sort out the funeral if they don't want to contact the beneficiairies to do so.

RomfordNavy

Mrs_Z said:

So, I feel for the OP, and I find it strange that the whole of family/friends have been totally cut off.  I understand the deceased possibly changing their mind but you would have thought that they would have still included friends and family in some way ie. just left them a reduced legacy.

Thank you, this is what we cannot understand at all.  To make donations to end-of-life charities involved is understandable, even if that was at the expense of some of the deceased normally supported charities.  Had it been just a proportion that would have been understandable and moreover would have provided clarity but to completely exclude both family and close friends seems just bizarre.

Pollycat

RomfordNavy said:

Thrugelmir said:

...
I can understand why somebody with a terminal illness would feel a gratitude towards such an organisation. While being looked after in there. 

Yes but Will was made in hospital before they had even seen the hospice!  I can understand some proportion being donated to the end-of-life charities but not everything while completely foresaking family and close friends.

So the nurses you are making a pretty serious allegation about are nurses in a hospital...? NHS hospital?
What reason could there be for nurses to put pressure onto your family member to make a will?

I think this notion of yours about pressure being brought to bear to make a will is clutching at straws - not to mention muddying the waters of your thread.

Do you have any proof of this allegation?

RomfordNavy

KxMx said:

Had one or both executors stayed and carried out the deceased wishes without being mercenary you wouldn't have such a mess now.

At least one has now suggested that they might have jumped the gun a bit and now agree the deceased was likely not of sound mind.  However I can understand how they would have seen that Will as a kick-in-the-teeth and got frightened about what they were getting involved with for absolutely no gratuity whatsoever.

I initially felt much the same at reading that Will.  However I have know my cousin for the whole of their life and love them to the end of the world.  This is  that reason I am talking to their numerous friends to try to get to the bottom of what has gone on here.

Manxman_in_exile

RomfordNavy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

Is this a close relative? A parent / sibling?

...

If it's a close relative, how you didn't even speak to a nurse, doctor, specialist at all, is beyond me. You need to prove certain things to contest a Will and a couple are - sound mind (which you have implied they had) and that the close relationship continued. When you couldn't get hold of them (at end of life) you didn't even call hospitals..... More you won't arrange a funeral, despite a funeral Bill being the first thing paid from an estate.

...
It looks like they chose to change the will as you weren't as close as you thought you were and in the final month they realised this.

When they first entered hospital they confirmed that I would be given as NoK which I agreed to.  The deceased did not provide any indication of what hospital they were in.  Final messages we had were suggesting that they were being prepared for coming home...

So your cousin contacted you out of the blue to say that they had been admitted to hospital, and they also told you that they had given your name to the hospital as NoK, but your cousin refused to tell you what hospital they were in?  But he kept in touch with you (until his 'phone battery ran out) and gave you the impression he would soon be discharged?  But he never told you where he was?

It seems totally bizarre (and a bit unbelieveable to be honest... ) that he would go to the trouble of contacting you to say he was in hospital - but not tell you which hospital.  Why would he do that?  None of that makes sense.  (It doesn't even make sense if he was confused etc because of medication.  If he had the capability to tell you he was in hospital, he was capable of telling you where.  It makes no sense.)

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

Is this a close relative? A parent / sibling?

...

If it's a close relative, how you didn't even speak to a nurse, doctor, specialist at all, is beyond me. You need to prove certain things to contest a Will and a couple are - sound mind (which you have implied they had) and that the close relationship continued. When you couldn't get hold of them (at end of life) you didn't even call hospitals..... More you won't arrange a funeral, despite a funeral Bill being the first thing paid from an estate.

...
It looks like they chose to change the will as you weren't as close as you thought you were and in the final month they realised this.

Other family members have indicated that they feel somewhat offended by being virtually completely left out of the Will and are reluctant to pay towards a funeral if they are not going to get it back which they won't if it is done without the permission of the executors.  A funeral bill is only the first thing paid from an estate if the executors agreed to it in advance.

I'm sorry to say I don't think much of the "other family members".  I can't imagine any family member being so offended in this situation that they would not contribute to the funeral.

RomfordNavy said:

sheramber said:

Did you not ask what hospital he was in? That is the first thing I  would have asked.

sheramber said:

How often do any of these family and friends visit him before covid restrictions? 
 

The close friends were there virtually daily.  Some of them have incurred significant costs carrying out the deceased wishes but none got even a mention in the final Will.

sheramber said:

if the friend who was involved with the hospital didn't have any contact with  the family, it doesn't sound as if there was as close a relationship with your uncle as you like to think. 
 

I can't imagine what significant costs they would have incurred carrying out the deceased's wishes.  If they were deathbed wishes then I'm not sure they should have expected to be reimbursed.  How do you know they incurred these costs?  I presume they told you?  Do you believe them?

And are they the same "friends" who refuse to act as executors because they were not left anything, and would rather your cousin remained unburied?

I can't say that anybody seems to come out of this very well...

Where are you getting this information, no one contacted anyone "out of the blue".  ..

I'm getting it from your post at 6:23pm on 08 August which you started:  "When they first entered hospital they confirmed that I would be given as NoK which I agreed to... ". 

While the two of you may have had a long standing agreement to act as NoK for each other, you've given no indication (that I can find - if I'm wrong I apologise) that you had any prior notice of your cousin's imminent admission to hospital.  So if you did not know in advance I would say it was "out of the blue".  And if you did have prior notice I don't understand how you could not have found out which hospital he was going into.  If he wouldn't tell you which hospital you should then have asked him how he could possibly expect you to carry out any responsibilities as his NoK without knowing what hospital he was in!

I'm sorry if you feel people responding to this thread are being a bit hostile, but your story of friends renouncing the executorship because they weren't in the will or family not wanting anything to do with the death because they weren't in the will all seems a bit mercenary to a lot of people.  It's implied criticism directed at the friends and other family members - not at you.

Let the hospital or local authority deal with the funeral if no family or friends want to be, or can't afford to be, involved.

In answer to your original question, being Next of Kin (a term which has no legal significance whatsoever) and being left out of a will is no reason on its own to challenge a will.  If the NoK was financially dependent on the testator, they might have a claim - but it would probably be very expensive even to find out, let alone fight it.

RomfordNavy

74jax said:

You said. -

Had not seen the deceased for over a year due to Covid

So strangely I took to this to read you hadn't visited due to covid - how else would I read your sentence?

Hadn't been to visit the deceased at home for a year due to covid and the involvement of a very elderly relative who makes avoiding covid even more important.  Other family friends who live nearer had also not see the deceased much during this time due to covid so nothing unusual in that.