Contesting a Will as Next-of-Kin

Manxman_in_exile

thegreenone said:

Flugelhorn said:

thegreenone said:

OP, who witnessed the signing of the new Will, please?  I would be very surprised if hospital staff are permitted to do that and as  far as I am aware, Hospice staff are not allowed to do so either.  Cousin's GP should have visited and made an assessment first.

Also, as someone pointed out earlier, why would your cousin make a hospice a beneficiary when he hadn't even been there?
  
No use to OP now but you can contact a Primary Care Trust to pass on concerns to GPs/hospitals. They are listed on the internet and hopefully you can find a relative that way.  I did this when I was very concerned about my late brother's mental health issues.  They were very helpful.

why would GP be involved in making an assessment before a patient made a will? they don't get involved in mental capacity assessments for that sort of thing - it is down to the lawyers to assure themselves that the person knows what they are doing. 

When someone is approaching end of life the palliative care  team will often mention that they may wish to "tie up any legal matters eg make a will if they haven't already" 

So a lawyer knows more about a persons mental capacity than their GP?  Really?  No.  

A GP has to assess that the person making the Will is able to understand what they are doing.  

Flugelhorn said:

thegreenone said:

Flugelhorn said:

thegreenone said:

OP, who witnessed the signing of the new Will, please?  I would be very surprised if hospital staff are permitted to do that and as  far as I am aware, Hospice staff are not allowed to do so either.  Cousin's GP should have visited and made an assessment first.

Also, as someone pointed out earlier, why would your cousin make a hospice a beneficiary when he hadn't even been there?
  
No use to OP now but you can contact a Primary Care Trust to pass on concerns to GPs/hospitals. They are listed on the internet and hopefully you can find a relative that way.  I did this when I was very concerned about my late brother's mental health issues.  They were very helpful.

why would GP be involved in making an assessment before a patient made a will? they don't get involved in mental capacity assessments for that sort of thing - it is down to the lawyers to assure themselves that the person knows what they are doing. 

When someone is approaching end of life the palliative care  team will often mention that they may wish to "tie up any legal matters eg make a will if they haven't already" 

So a lawyer knows more about a persons mental capacity than their GP?  Really?  No.  

A GP has to assess that the person making the Will is able to understand what they are doing.  

no they don't! GP can (and do on a daily basis) assess people's capacity to consent to medical treatment and their understanding of the benefits / risks. Capacity is time and event specific, therefore for legal matters a solicitor is the one needs to be sure re capacity for that specific matter - they can get an IMCA if needed.  I worked for decades as a GP and was never involved in capacity for a will and just  a few LPOA assessments 

I agree with Flugelhorn. 

When my MiL was diagnosed with Lewy Body dementia (in which the unfortunate sufferer is cursed with lucid periods when they understand what is happening to them) and she had a PoA done, the solicitor who did it (and who was a STEP solicitor) was the sole arbiter as to whether my MiL had the necessary mental and legal capacity to do so.  There was no medical involvement at all - certainly not from her GP or any of her psychiatrists who were all over 150 miles away at the time.  [EDIT:  And having worked in a mental health trust for 25 years, I suspect a solicitor would be just as good at judging a client's menatl capacity as their GP or psychiatrist.]

The same would be true in the case of making a will.

(Only if the solicitor was unsure as to the client's mental capacity would they get some sort of medical assessment - and even then I think they'd have to be VERY UNSURE, not just a little.)

RomfordNavy

Manxman_in_exile said:

If the OP is now in the mess they are in because this friend has renounced their executorship and nobody can now authorise a funeral, then the friend is responsible.

The OP needs to let the NHS or the local authority sort out the funeral if they don't want to contact the beneficiairies to do so.

No the family do not consider the friend responsible, if you understood and appreciated the whole position and surrounding situations then you might understand why.

Edit: What about the fact that this executor had not been asked if they were willing to be an executor?

The OP cannot legally notify anyone, as a non-beneficionary they are technically not even allowed to see this Will.

RomfordNavy

Manxman_in_exile said:

RomfordNavy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

When they first entered hospital they confirmed that I would be given as NoK which I agreed to.  The deceased did not provide any indication of what hospital they were in.  Final messages we had were suggesting that they were being prepared for coming home...

So your cousin contacted you out of the blue to say that they had been admitted to hospital, and they also told you that they had given your name to the hospital as NoK, but your cousin refused to tell you what hospital they were in?  But he kept in touch with you (until his 'phone battery ran out) and gave you the impression he would soon be discharged?  But he never told you where he was?
.

Where are you getting this information, no one contacted anyone "out of the blue".  ..

I'm getting it from your post at 6:23pm on 08 August which you started:  "When they first entered hospital they confirmed that I would be given as NoK which I agreed to... ". 

While the two of you may have had a long standing agreement to act as NoK for each other, you've given no indication (that I can find - if I'm wrong I apologise) that you had any prior notice of your cousin's imminent admission to hospital.

Ok perhaps I should had said 'confirmed' rather than 'agreed' would that have been clearer.

We had spoken numerous time in the week prior to going into hospital so I knew about health issues.  Going into hospital was therefore not out-of-the-blue.

74jax

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

You said. -

Had not seen the deceased for over a year due to Covid

So strangely I took to this to read you hadn't visited due to covid - how else would I read your sentence?

Hadn't been to visit the deceased at home for a year due to covid and the involvement of a very elderly relative who makes avoiding covid even more important.  Other family friends who live nearer had also not see the deceased much during this time due to covid so nothing unusual in that.

I know there is not. I never said there was.

I said something about you not visiting due to covid.

You then replied you never said anything about not visiting due to covid. 

I then copied your sentence where you said you never visited due to covid.

You have now just posted  that's right and there is nothing unusual in it.

I think you are fighting with a plastic bag here.  I was merely posting something you had said - and that is of relevance to the thread. 

As mentioned my mam died of covid right in the middle of lockdown, not being able to visit is heartbreaking.  I'm agreeing with you, it is a very very valid reason for not visiting. We had to get council letters to cross from one LA to another. We had to explain why we were out for more than an hour. I get it. 

All I was doing was correcting something as you clearly did say you didn't visit due to covid. 

RomfordNavy

Pollycat said:

So the nurses you are making a pretty serious allegation about are nurses in a hospital...? NHS hospital?
What reason could there be for nurses to put pressure onto your family member to make a will?

I think this notion of yours about pressure being brought to bear to make a will is clutching at straws - not to mention muddying the waters of your thread.

Do you have any proof of this allegation?

One of the family have two friends who were both dismissed from their positions with a similar charity for their refusal to get involved in trying to get end-of-life people to do new wills handing over much of their estates to the said charity.

We also have an opinion from a very senior Police Officer friend that they have seen many examples of this before, where end-of-life charities get the dying to write a will giving much of their estate to that charity.

So yes I do think this is standard practise for some end-of-life charities.

RomfordNavy

74jax said:

I said something about you not visiting due to covid.

You then replied you never said anything about not visiting due to covid.

If I recall correctly the context at the time was about not visiting the hospital.  My point intended is that covid had nothing to do with not visiting the hospital.  That was just why we had not met in person for the previous year.

thegreenone

Manxman_in_exile said:

(Only if the solicitor was unsure as to the client's mental capacity would they get some sort of medical assessment - and even then I think they'd have to be VERY UNSURE, not just a little.)

Ah, okay.  An elderly relative (of previous sound mind) had to have a medical assessment before she could write a new Will about two weeks before they died.  I thought this was standard, so I stand corrected.  However, it was not a solicitor in our case but a Will Writer.  Perhaps that's the reason.  

Malthusian

RomfordNavy said:

One of the family have two friends who were both dismissed from their positions with a similar charity for their refusal to get involved in trying to get end-of-life people to do new wills handing over much of their estates to the said charity.

We also have an opinion from a very senior Police Officer friend that they have seen many examples of this before, where end-of-life charities get the dying to write a will giving much of their estate to that charity.

So yes I do think this is standard practise for some end-of-life charities.

What does that have to do with your allegation that hospital nurses (not charity fundraisers) applied pressure to the deceased?

Pollycat

RomfordNavy said:

Pollycat said:

So the nurses you are making a pretty serious allegation about are nurses in a hospital...? NHS hospital?
What reason could there be for nurses to put pressure onto your family member to make a will?

I think this notion of yours about pressure being brought to bear to make a will is clutching at straws - not to mention muddying the waters of your thread.

Do you have any proof of this allegation?

One of the family have two friends who were both dismissed from their positions with a similar charity for their refusal to get involved in trying to get end-of-life people to do new wills handing over much of their estates to the said charity.

We also have an opinion from a very senior Police Officer friend that they have seen many examples of this before, where end-of-life charities get the dying to write a will giving much of their estate to that charity.

So yes I do think this is standard practise for some end-of-life charities.

I didn't ask if you knew anyone who was dismissed from their positions with a similar charity for their refusal to get involved in trying to get end-of-life people to do new wills.
I didn't ask if you have a friend who has seen examples of this.
Not did I ask if - you think - it is standard practice.

I asked if you had proof.
Proof of this specifically happening in your relative's case.
Especially as you have made a very serious allegation against nurses.

You specifically said - on page 10 today at 11:36,

RomfordNavy said:

Lets the the case of the friend who arranged the Solicitor to do the Will.  The now deceased was under pressure from the Nurses to get a Will written, they had asked said friend to chase-up partially completed equity release on a property to cover the cost of having the Will written.  As this was obviously causing qute a bit of distress, in the end the friend said don't worry about the cost I will pay for it and arranged for Solicitors to visit.  I don't think it unreasonable for that friend to have quite reasonably expected some small gratuity to cover the those costs.  You have to bear in mind that the deceased was very independent and allways has been, they would never ask anyone to do something without paying them.

This post ^^^^ was edited 1:23pm today but still accuses nurses of putting pressure on the deceased.
Not 'might have', 'could have' or 'maybe'.
But 'was under pressure'.

Do you have proof that you can produce if required that this pressure actually happened?
If not, I would edit/delete any post that may land you in trouble if you can be identified from what you have posted here.

ETA:
This is what MSE say in their rules:

Consider the implications of your post

It’s important to understand that your post(s) could land you in court, being sued for defamation, and that you may have to pay substantial costs.

The Forum Team does not decide if a post is defamatory or investigate claims made in a post. Therefore, be aware that you may be liable for what you write in a post.

The MSE Forum Guide: Frequently Asked Questions & Rules (moneysavingexpert.com)

RomfordNavy

Malthusian said:

What does that have to do with your allegation that hospital nurses (not charity fundraisers) applied pressure to the deceased?

I never said Hospital Nurses, you assumed that.