Construction waste responsibility

arciere

We have just completed the construction of a porch. The property is accessible via a small pathway and doesn't face the main road, so the builders could not put a skip within the property.

Instead, they moved all the waste near the parking area and organised for a "wait and load" skip on a couple of occasions. The remaining waste hasn't been collected yet.

Today I was told that someone, presumably working for the council, informed our neighbours (we were not at home) that we would be fined because of the remaining waste material that still hasn't been collected (the collection was already arranged for today before their visit).

Now, accepted that no waste should ever be dumped on public soil without previous authorisation, should the council decide to fine us, would we be required to pay for it?

I am asking because at no stage we physically dumped waste there ourselves or even instructed the builders to do so. We were asked to arrange for a final rubbish collection as soon as the works finished (which happened the other day), which we did immediately.

TheMilkmansDad

from a common sense perspective, if part of the agreed contract with the builder was for them to arrange for the disposal of waste material then I would say they should be liable for any costs associated with it.

From a legal point of view I have no idea!

arciere

TheMilkmansDad said:

from a common sense perspective, if part of the agreed contract with the builder was for them to arrange for the disposal of waste material then I would say they should be liable for any costs associated with it.

From a legal point of view I have no idea!

We knew we would have to pay for the disposal, which is fine. The issue is, can we be fined for temporary dumping waste on public soil since we didn't do it and didn't ask for it to be left there? Is "the material is from your property" a good reason to get fined?

Doozergirl

From a legal point of view it is entirely your responsibility to ensure that waste is disposed of responsibly!  

Councils don't negotiate.  You won't have a leg to stand on.  It's also criminal, so you can't pass that on to the builder, regardless of the agreement.  

arciere

Doozergirl said:

From a legal point of view it is entirely your responsibility to ensure that waste is disposed of responsibly!  

Councils don't negotiate.  You won't have a leg to stand on.  It's also criminal, so you can't pass that on to the builder, regardless of the agreement.  

Yes but how am I supposed to know if the builders that I hired have all the required authorisations? It's not that they dumped waste in a river. How can that be my responsibility if I hired someone else to do the work?

Doozergirl

arciere said:

Doozergirl said:

From a legal point of view it is entirely your responsibility to ensure that waste is disposed of responsibly!  

Councils don't negotiate.  You won't have a leg to stand on.  It's also criminal, so you can't pass that on to the builder, regardless of the agreement.  

Yes but how am I supposed to know if the builders that I hired have all the required authorisations? It's not that they dumped waste in a river. How can that be my responsibility if I hired someone else to do the work?

You can check their waste carrier's license when waste is removed from your house, but leaving rubbish in a public place, even if there is intention to collect, is fly tipping.  

It's just the stuff that goes with being a grown up, sadly.  We've had to work in situations where we're keeping building spoil in a house with no garden and then had 30 minutes to run it out to the rubbish collector's van so we didn't fall fowl of the parking wardens as well. 

arciere

Doozergirl said:

arciere said:

Doozergirl said:

From a legal point of view it is entirely your responsibility to ensure that waste is disposed of responsibly!  

Councils don't negotiate.  You won't have a leg to stand on.  It's also criminal, so you can't pass that on to the builder, regardless of the agreement.  

Yes but how am I supposed to know if the builders that I hired have all the required authorisations? It's not that they dumped waste in a river. How can that be my responsibility if I hired someone else to do the work?

You can check their waste carrier's license when waste is removed from your house, but leaving rubbish in a public place, even if there is intention to collect, is fly tipping.  

It's just the stuff that goes with being a grown up, sadly.  We've had to work in situations where we're keeping building spoil in a house with no garden and then had 30 minutes to run it out to the rubbish collector's van so we didn't fall fowl of the parking wardens as well. 

Yes I get that. But if I hire a company to do construction work, how can it be my responsibility if THEY decide to temporary dump waste illegally? How can someone be responsible for someone else's fly tipping?

If you buy a new fridge and get the old one collected, do you follow the delivery van until you see them disposing of your old fridge?

Section62

Doozergirl said:

...and then had 30 minutes to run it out to the rubbish collector's van so we didn't fall fowl of the parking wardens as well. 

Playing "chicken" with parking enforcement is sadly a hazard of the job in urban areas.

Doozergirl

arciere said:

Doozergirl said:

arciere said:

Doozergirl said:

From a legal point of view it is entirely your responsibility to ensure that waste is disposed of responsibly!  

Councils don't negotiate.  You won't have a leg to stand on.  It's also criminal, so you can't pass that on to the builder, regardless of the agreement.  

Yes but how am I supposed to know if the builders that I hired have all the required authorisations? It's not that they dumped waste in a river. How can that be my responsibility if I hired someone else to do the work?

You can check their waste carrier's license when waste is removed from your house, but leaving rubbish in a public place, even if there is intention to collect, is fly tipping.  

It's just the stuff that goes with being a grown up, sadly.  We've had to work in situations where we're keeping building spoil in a house with no garden and then had 30 minutes to run it out to the rubbish collector's van so we didn't fall fowl of the parking wardens as well. 

Yes I get that. But if I hire a company to do construction work, how can it be my responsibility if THEY decide to temporary dump waste illegally? How can someone be responsible for someone else's fly tipping?

If you buy a new fridge and get the old one collected, do you follow the delivery van until you see them disposing of your old fridge?

If someone collects a fridge from you, you definitely check their waste carrier's license so you know it's going to the right place.  

If you know for a fact that your rubbish is sitting on land that does not belong to you, you know for a fact that it's not where it should be.  As far as the council are concerned, it's been tipped.  

Giving your rubbish to someone does not absolve you of the responsibility of disposing of it responsibly.

The rules seem a little bit strange but if people check that the people they use are licensed, there isn't a fly tipping industry.  All the council need to do is trace it back to you, not the people that put it there. 
 

Section62

arciere said:

Now, accepted that no waste should ever be dumped on public soil without previous authorisation, should the council decide to fine us, would we be required to pay for it?

You knew it was wrong, and you knew it was there.  There's not much space for avoidance if the Council decide it was your duty of care.  Not that 'not knowing' would get you off either.

The Council will start by investigating you, because they know where you live and can link the waste to your property.  Whether you can avoid a FPN or prosecution will depend on how the duty of care falls, and the extent to which you are willing to put the builder in the frame.

arciere said:

I am asking because at no stage we physically dumped waste there ourselves or even instructed the builders to do so. We were asked to arrange for a final rubbish collection as soon as the works finished (which happened the other day), which we did immediately.

This bit is important - what was agreed with the builder?  Were they responsible for removing the waste they created during the work, or had you agreed that you would make arrangements for waste disposal?  I.e. who do you mean by "We"?

arciere

Doozergirl said:

The rules seem a little bit strange but if people check that the people they use are licensed, there isn't a fly tipping industry.  All the council need to do is trace it back to you, not the people that put it there. 
 

Ok, I think we are still not on the same page.

So we hired this company to build a new porch. All the waste material was waste created during their work. I don't know if they are licensed to dispose of rubbish, because we knew since the start that we would have had to pay a separate company to collect the rubbish that they would create.

On two occasions, they arranged for a wait and load skip, which we later paid for (we did not know how/when/what until we got the invoices from them).

On the last occasion, we were told to organise for the final removal, they gave us a contact to call, which we did.

The issue is not whether they are or are not licensed to dispose of rubbish. We knew since day one that we would have relied on other companies. The problem is, why is it our responsibility the fact that they decided to temporarily hold the rubbish there while the works were still on, waiting for the collection company to come and take the rubbish?

From my perspective,all I knew was that the waste would have been collected by a third company at the end of the works, which is what happened.