Money Moral Dilemma: Do I give a gift when it's a 'pretend' wedding?

Pollycat

Mela322 said:

I'm just wondering if the wedding date was set well in advanced knowing the divorce would be finalised before then.  It could be that due to all the covid delays, his divorce was delayed.  I can imagine it wouldn't be easy or cheap to cancel the wedding.  At this point, this wedding is their official wedding to celebrate with family and they will then go to their local registry office to make it legally official.   They may share this at the wedding or they are hoping the divorce comes through before then.   I would buy a gift and be happy to celebrate with them in such awful times.

Then just be honest and up-front with people.

Tell them that the timescale plans haven't worked out.

If this divorce has been "years in the planning while the groom waited for his divorce to go through from his previous marriage" I can't see anyone objecting.

But don't tell people lies.

Ringo90 said:

I see a lot of people here judging without knowing. First, do we know for sure he has lied about the divorce? The OP isn't clear about how reliable is their source.
Second, if indeed the divorce hasn't gone through, could it be that it had a set date, but it was postponed due to COVID (as someone here has already said).
If the possibility of the guy lying is bothering you, I would suggest speaking to him frankly about it.
After that, even if for whatever reason he's not divorced but they'd still like to have a celebration party, well, it's their union they're celebrating. If you believe in this union regardless of the bureaucracy, then attend the party and bring a gift as it was any other wedding.
Instead, if you're bothered by the possible lie/by the fact the union is not (yet) recognised by the law, then just don't attend the party.
But attending the party and not bringing the gift just because of what you're believing in doesn't make sense and it just looks like you don't want to open the wallet. Be coherent with yourself and excuse yourself for the party.

All posters can do is go with the limited information provided.

And that says "the divorce isn't through yet".

SadieO

ginger_chocolate said:

Do you want to give them a gift?

If you do wnat to give a gift, why does it matter in this context whether the "marriage" is legally binding or not?

If you don't want to give a gift, just don't. Plenty of people don't give wedding presents at all, and that's fine.

 I don't really understand why the legality of the process has anything to do with the gift. If someone celebrates their birthday a week before the actual day that doesn't mean I don't give them a present because it's not their "real" birthday. 

Absolutely! I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on this. Years ago, before same-sex marriage was legal, we went to a beautiful wedding of a same-sex couple. They spoke lovely words about their love and commitment, and had a celebration with all their family and friends. It wasn't legally binding, but it was as much a wedding as any other I've ever been to. (And we took a gift - although according to some of the suggestions here, we should have given them an empty box or monopoly money as it was a "fake" wedding! What a disgusting way to think). I don't actually know if, after it became legal, they went to the registry office and formalised it - and nor do I care. The legal status of anyone's relationship (or any other business) is none of my concern, as long as nobody is trying to deceive or defraud me, and I don't think that is the case here. Perhaps, as other posters have suggested, the divorce just got delayed, or perhaps there is something complicated or even distressing going on with it behind the scenes, that the couple don't really want airing to all their family and friends. 

If they are treating this as their wedding then respect that and do so too - or don't go.

And if you want to get them a present then do so. And if you don't, don't! Same as you would for any other wedding, or indeed, birthday party or any other celebration. 

_jiji_

I'm going to a family 'wedding' that has been years in the planning while the groom waited for his divorce to go through from his previous marriage. The couple have told the family he's now divorced and the wedding is going ahead, and they've asked for money as a wedding present. But I've found out that the divorce isn't through yet, so it won't be an official ceremony in law and is probably little more than a party in reality.

The way this query is presented makes the couple look as though they're being deliberately deceitful, and I wouldn't blame anyone for being a bit miffed by that. However I wonder at the potential for misunderstanding, or plans wrecked by covid. People and lives are complicated and it may be that any deliberate deceit has private reasons behind it that most would be sympathetic to.

I don't agree with the expectation that everyone always has to be 100% open about private, emotional matters - and we don't know how close they are to this person. Maybe these people just want to celebrate their relationship like anyone else without letting a bitter ex hold them back or deal with mean spirited people judging them for not having a 'real wedding'.

I would question the motives of whichever third party spilled this information, as they're obviously intent on causing trouble. Unless it was the couple themselves which would change everything!

If they are going for deliberate deceit then they won't have another big public wedding/relationship ceremony so you could treat this as 'the main event'.

If I were close to them I might ask about it. If I find them otherwise trustworthy and honest, I'd probably decide to treat it as their wedding and give a small monetary gift.. If I already knew them for liars/cheats I probably wouldn't go, nevermind give money.

geemac_one

If it's a pretend wedding then a pretend gift would be ideal.  Put a battery in a little box with a card saying Present Not Included!

Torry_Quine

SadieO said:

ginger_chocolate said:

Do you want to give them a gift?

If you do wnat to give a gift, why does it matter in this context whether the "marriage" is legally binding or not?

If you don't want to give a gift, just don't. Plenty of people don't give wedding presents at all, and that's fine.

 I don't really understand why the legality of the process has anything to do with the gift. If someone celebrates their birthday a week before the actual day that doesn't mean I don't give them a present because it's not their "real" birthday. 

Absolutely! I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on this. Years ago, before same-sex marriage was legal, we went to a beautiful wedding of a same-sex couple. They spoke lovely words about their love and commitment, and had a celebration with all their family and friends. It wasn't legally binding, but it was as much a wedding as any other I've ever been to. (And we took a gift - although according to some of the suggestions here, we should have given them an empty box or monopoly money as it was a "fake" wedding! What a disgusting way to think). I don't actually know if, after it became legal, they went to the registry office and formalised it - and nor do I care. The legal status of anyone's relationship (or any other business) is none of my concern, as long as nobody is trying to deceive or defraud me, and I don't think that is the case here. Perhaps, as other posters have suggested, the divorce just got delayed, or perhaps there is something complicated or even distressing going on with it behind the scenes, that the couple don't really want airing to all their family and friends. 

If they are treating this as their wedding then respect that and do so too - or don't go.

And if you want to get them a present then do so. And if you don't, don't! Same as you would for any other wedding, or indeed, birthday party or any other celebration. 

It does make a difference, to me at least. I would just take a small item for a party but spend more for a wedding, birthday or other occasion. 
If this is a party in expectation of the upcoming wedding then I do think people need to know. It's deceptive not to.
I certainly wouldn't give an empty box though, that's just cruel.

It wasn't a same sex wedding, of course people knew that because it wasn't legal to have one. 

 

 

 

Littledaler

It doesn't take "years" to obtain a divorce.  It's outrageous that this man is lying to his friends.  I hope his partner knows she won't be his legal wife.  I think this guy hasn't put any effort into obtaining a divorce, he likes being married to his first wife and having this second life - shame on him.  As for having a "celebration" of a non-wedding - I would tell him he's getting a non-present and that the real present is for his real wedding.  Oh and I'd consider ditching this guy as a "friend" - he obviously doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Episkopos

MSE_Laura_F said:

This week's MoneySaver who wants advice asks...

I'm going to a family 'wedding' that has been years in the planning while the groom waited for his divorce to go through from his previous marriage. The couple have told the family he's now divorced and the wedding is going ahead, and they've asked for money as a wedding present. But I've found out that the divorce isn't through yet, so it won't be an official ceremony in law and is probably little more than a party in reality.

Unfortunately the MSE team can't always answer money moral dilemma questions as contributions are emailed in or suggested in person. They are intended to be a point of debate and discussed at face value. Remember that behind each dilemma there is a real person so, as the forum rules say, please keep it kind and keep it clean.

  If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply.

  Got a Money Moral Dilemma of your own? Suggest an MMD.

You say that in the scenario that the husband is not divorced yet. The Divorce is not through yet. 

If the wedding is to take place in a church, then you are legally bound to let the minister know. If he even unknowingly married a couple and one of whom was still married, then he commits a criminal offence. There will be the Banns of marriage up to three weeks before the ceremony so you have a chance to tell the minister what you know and he can stop the wedding from taking place

The Man concerned will be committing bigamy and that is a criminal offence. The banns give you the opportunity, to let the minister know that there is a problem but then in the marriage ceremony, both parties are asked if they know of any legal impediment that they may not get married. If the man lies then he lies under God and he lies to the congregation and to is prospective wife 

So the question of gifts here is a non-discussion because there are far more important issues here. 

The Minister in a Church of England or Catholic church is the registrar by virtue of his office. In a "free" church such as a Baptist church, the Minister may be the registrar but he will need if not, a registrar present to do the solemnising part under the Mariage Act 

FarmGirl78

Littledaler said:

It doesn't take "years" to obtain a divorce.  It's outrageous that this man is lying to his friends.  I hope his partner knows she won't be his legal wife.  I think this guy hasn't put any effort into obtaining a divorce, he likes being married to his first wife and having this second life - shame on him.  As for having a "celebration" of a non-wedding - I would tell him he's getting a non-present and that the real present is for his real wedding.  Oh and I'd consider ditching this guy as a "friend" - he obviously doesn't know the meaning of the word.

Wow that's a lot of conclusions you're jumping too. It can in some circumstances take "years" for a divorce. My boyfriend's absolute was due 2 months ago, but his ex put a stop to it at the last minute so financials can be sorted. He was literally waiting till midnight on the relevant night so he could click the button online for his absolute, which takes about 6 hours. It's now been stopped and he can't take it further until a judge seals the financial consent order, which could take another 18 months to argue out. He'd happily agree to whatever financially, but she's ignoring communication, there's a backlog with the courts and forcing a house sale will take months and months if not longer.

This MMD divorce could have well taken "years" and now both parties are desperate to get it over with. If their nisi had been announced in court then they can apply for the absolute 6 weeks and 1 day after this. The wedding in question might be planned for after this date, and as they take 6 hours online then the divorcing couple know they will be free to marry again after this set date.

Depending on when the wedding actually is booked for they're chancing it a bit.......but that doesn't for one minute mean he's still living with his wife who he has no intention on leaving. Where on earth did you get that from? I think the world is a very sad place that you're automatically just assuming the very worst and jumping to wild conclusions without any evidence to say so.

Aleann

Clarify with the bride. It’s not a wedding if he’s not divorced. Maybe they’re having the reception with friends but a cosy wedding abroad afterwards. You need to know.

Ringo90

Pollycat said:

All posters can do is go with the limited information provided.

And that says "the divorce isn't through yet".

No, that says, "But I've found out that the divorce isn't through yet" and there is a clear difference between "I've found out that" and "He has told me that". That could be the meaning, or maybe not.
Nevertheless, the idea of "pretend" wedding is down to each one of us. They might not be able to get married legally (yet) but their friends and family might still want to celebrate what is de facto a union. Obviously, if they were to obtain legality in the future, they shouldn't have another party. Whatever your idea of a "pretend" wedding might be, it is very simple: either don't go or go with a gift, according to your own ideas. By going to the party you're showing support to the couple so you should also give them a gift, exactly as you do at other parties.

Years ago I was invited by a relative to a wedding that was perfectly legal and even celebrated in a church. They were getting married even though they had been dating for a short time, just because she "mysteriously" got pregnant and the groom was pressured into doing that. From the circumstances, you could even guess that she had done that on purpose. Anyway, guess what? They divorced after a year or so. I didn't attend the wedding for a series of reasons, and I don't repent that: would you say THAT is a real wedding?