Supermarket workers pinged

SingleSue

briskbeats said:

I gave contact details when got haircut and visited a couple of tourist places. Though this was before 19/7.

Went inside a KFC to dine in yesterday and no need to give contact information

Though noticed some eating places still got a track n trace QR code at entrance. Have these places forget to remove them?

We've still got ours up for those who want to use it and we still have our paper based one too...so far, every single customer has voluntarily filled in our paper based system. In our place, most of the sign ins were done via the paper based system when it was compulsory as the vast majority of our customer base don't have mobile phones let alone a smart phone capable of running the app.

p3ncilsharpener

Pollycat said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

Pollycat said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

lisyloo said:

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Recording details for track and trace is no longer a legal requirement as of July 19th. (And most places weren't required to take these details anyway.)

Agreed.

Shops certainly weren't required to take details.

Nor were buses or other forms of public transport..

In fact the only places I visited that I gave my contact details to was my local pub.

Oh - and maybe a restaurant I visited this time last year.

The whole track and trace thing was a farce anyway. There seemed to be little motivation to enforce it after a couple of months and anyone who didn't want to be told to self-isolate could easily avoid it by giving fake details, pretending to scan the QR code but not or just scanning the QR code and ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

I provided my details when required to do so.

Accurate details, not faked.

I have never been contacted by Test and Trace - probably because I've pretty careful about where I've been and and when.

I didn't say you didn't but when people could easily dodge it by using the app and ignoring the " recommendation" then what point was there in it at all?

And I will point out that displaying the NHS Track & Trace code was mandatory, so you can't even claim people had to fill out a paper form and commit a form of perjury.

Pollycat

p3ncilsharpener said:

Pollycat said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

Pollycat said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

lisyloo said:

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Recording details for track and trace is no longer a legal requirement as of July 19th. (And most places weren't required to take these details anyway.)

Agreed.

Shops certainly weren't required to take details.

Nor were buses or other forms of public transport..

In fact the only places I visited that I gave my contact details to was my local pub.

Oh - and maybe a restaurant I visited this time last year.

The whole track and trace thing was a farce anyway. There seemed to be little motivation to enforce it after a couple of months and anyone who didn't want to be told to self-isolate could easily avoid it by giving fake details, pretending to scan the QR code but not or just scanning the QR code and ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

I provided my details when required to do so.

Accurate details, not faked.

I have never been contacted by Test and Trace - probably because I've pretty careful about where I've been and and when.

I didn't say you didn't but when people could easily dodge it by using the app and ignoring the " recommendation" then what point was there in it at all?

And I will point out that displaying the NHS Track & Trace code was mandatory, so you can't even claim people had to fill out a paper form and commit a form of perjury.

I'm not claiming anything.

But...don't you have to have a smartphone to use the NHS Track and Trace code?

SingleSue said:

briskbeats said:

I gave contact details when got haircut and visited a couple of tourist places. Though this was before 19/7.

Went inside a KFC to dine in yesterday and no need to give contact information

Though noticed some eating places still got a track n trace QR code at entrance. Have these places forget to remove them?

We've still got ours up for those who want to use it and we still have our paper based one too...so far, every single customer has voluntarily filled in our paper based system. In our place, most of the sign ins were done via the paper based system when it was compulsory as the vast majority of our customer base don't have mobile phones let alone a smart phone capable of running the app.

booneruk

ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

There can't be a legal requirement to isolate via app pings since the app is completely anonymous - one of the topics there was much whinge over originally, as the first version of the app (that wasn't rolled out) wasn't anonymous so feasibly this could have supported legal enforcement, but then uptake might have been lower.

The app is a tool to help reduce spreading, and there's no doubt it's done that, but there are obviously going to be plenty of people asked to isolate who haven't actually got the virus.

Davesnave

booneruk said:

ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

The app is a tool to help reduce spreading, and there's no doubt it's done that, but there are obviously going to be plenty of people asked to isolate who haven't actually got the virus.

And it's fine if you're a nice middle-class person in a state or large company funded job, being granted an extra 8 days off, but there's an estimated 3m people who've received nothing except grief so far, who won't be among those eager to participate.

Beyond those, there's also a large and disparate group who see the app as a way government will collect data in order to lock us all down again, so they won't have downloaded it in the first place, or they'll have deleted it.

briskbeats

booneruk said:

ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

There can't be a legal requirement to isolate via app pings since the app is completely anonymous - one of the topics there was much whinge over originally, as the first version of the app (that wasn't rolled out) wasn't anonymous so feasibly this could have supported legal enforcement, but then uptake might have been lower.

The app is a tool to help reduce spreading, and there's no doubt it's done that, but there are obviously going to be plenty of people asked to isolate who haven't actually got the virus.

I think I read somewhere that 32 pings per 10 people testing positive.

MattMattMattUK

Davesnave said:

booneruk said:

ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

The app is a tool to help reduce spreading, and there's no doubt it's done that, but there are obviously going to be plenty of people asked to isolate who haven't actually got the virus.

And it's fine if you're a nice middle-class person in a state or large company funded job, being granted an extra 8 days off, but there's an estimated 3m people who've received nothing except grief so far, who won't be among those eager to participate.

I run my own business, massively impacted, pretty much no support from the government (Director, remunerated 92% via dividend in normal times), got pretty much nothing from the government (no grants, ability to in theory furlough myself for the 8% of my remuneration that comes via PAYE, but impossible in practice to furlough myself). However as a business owner you take the rough with the smooth, being outside the scope of the handout schemes has been annoying (although they were never designed to help everyone, they were designed to stop economic collapse), however the incessant whinging of the so-called excluded is far more annoying. Small business owners had to adapt, just as we always have, that is the nature of being a small business.

Davesnave said:

Beyond those, there's also a large and disparate group who see the app as a way government will collect data in order to lock us all down again, so they won't have downloaded it in the first place, or they'll have deleted it.

There are always the conspiracy theorists, the loons, the paranoid etc. and there is very little we can do about them, however the main advantage of a vaccine passport for pubs would be that many of them could not get in, so at least we would not have to be exposed to most of them.

Davesnave

MattMattMattUK said:

Davesnave said:

booneruk said:

ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

The app is a tool to help reduce spreading, and there's no doubt it's done that, but there are obviously going to be plenty of people asked to isolate who haven't actually got the virus.

And it's fine if you're a nice middle-class person in a state or large company funded job, being granted an extra 8 days off, but there's an estimated 3m people who've received nothing except grief so far, who won't be among those eager to participate.

I run my own business, massively impacted, pretty much no support from the government (Director, remunerated 92% via dividend in normal times), got pretty much nothing from the government (no grants, ability to in theory furlough myself for the 8% of my remuneration that comes via PAYE, but impossible in practice to furlough myself). However as a business owner you take the rough with the smooth, being outside the scope of the handout schemes has been annoying (although they were never designed to help everyone, they were designed to stop economic collapse), however the incessant whinging of the so-called excluded is far more annoying. Small business owners had to adapt, just as we always have, that is the nature of being a small business.

Davesnave said:

Beyond those, there's also a large and disparate group who see the app as a way government will collect data in order to lock us all down again, so they won't have downloaded it in the first place, or they'll have deleted it.

There are always the conspiracy theorists, the loons, the paranoid etc. and there is very little we can do about them, however the main advantage of a vaccine passport for pubs would be that many of them could not get in, so at least we would not have to be exposed to most of them.

I wasn't thinking only about small business owners, though they are one group. Having once been one, I don't need lectures about risk, or need telling that even in normal times a huge proportion fail. It's the nature of the beast.

As for conspiracy loonies, consider that even the WHO don't recommend lockdowns over prolonged periods, yet we've had 3 now. Look at how many times we've seen backtracks or volte face situations. Trust has been strained or evaporated. Talking to local people who are hardly revolutionary in outlook, I find it's becoming common for them to distrust schemes and pronouncements. It's not an organised train of thought worthy of the name 'theory.'

Regarding pubs, our village has lost both of those in the past 18 months.

briskbeats

Reason why I didn’t download track and trace app is not suitable for those living in flats.

Bluetooth doesn’t recognise levels. So people are getting pinged when it’s actually for someone living above or below them.

My neighbour got tested positive in mid Jan. She’s not downloaded the app. A relative of hers got pinged after a client tested positive. That meant I would have got pinged end June.

Pollycat

briskbeats said:

Reason why I didn’t download track and trace app is not suitable for those living in flats.

Bluetooth doesn’t recognise levels. So people are getting pinged when it’s actually for someone living above or below them.

My neighbour got tested positive in mid Jan. She’s not downloaded the app. A relative of hers got pinged after a client tested positive. That meant I would have got pinged end June.

You mentioned this in your opening post.

You had a very considered response here:

Tokmon said:

Where have you got your information that the app doesn't work properly in flats?

Many people are saying this but have it just seems to be based on rumours and not understanding how the app actually functions. The app doesn't simply just look at all Bluetooth signals and determine them all as contacts it also looks at the signal strength and any signal going through a wall will be very measurably weaker.

Also why would you have the app on while at home? You simply need to turn it off when your home and back on when out just like you should when your phone isn't with you.

Plus if you did get a notification to isolate then you can legally ignore it. So no real reason to not have it and delete it.

Do you have evidence that the T&T app doesn't work in flats?

Or are you listening to rumours?

Do you think it would be sensible to have the app installed but turn it off when you're at home?