Supermarket workers pinged

MattMattMattUK

briskbeats said:

Read that someone went to a cafe to collect a takeaway. They were in the cafe for 5 mins max. They got pinged. Checked the Bluetooth data and it was down for 7 hours! 

No idea how to check your Bluetooth history.

It is not possible on iOS (well not for anyone other than Apple), on Android you need to enable logging first in Developer mode, then you can view the log files after they have been created (they only start from that point), however the log files are accurate and would not log a Bluetooth signal for seven hours if there was not one. 

Now they could have not understood the log files, they could have been totally wrong about the location (You are not told where your location that caused the ping occurred, nor are you told the exact time (only the day), most likely they are just making it up. Bluetooth is a flawed technology for proximity as it was never designed for that, nor can it use anything other than signal strength data to approximate proximity, but it is also not possible for the device to detect a signal that is not there. 

lisyloo

sweetgirl2015 said:

Andy_L said:

There is, and never has been,  any legal requirement to isolate if pinged by the app

So what was the point of it then? I thought it was a legal requirement hence why the government created the furlough scheme.
It may aswell not exist if people dont obide by it. 
That said I just been pinged myself and faced with all sorts of problems. Mine being I deal with vunerable people, so surely I should follow the requirements, legal or otherwise? 

Many of us are abiding by it AND many employers as well don't want people in the office if they've been pinged.
Now you can take a cynical view if people are being paid sick pay or you can see it as caring for other people.
I believe you care for vulnerable people (if I've got the right person) so surely you don't want to spread it to them?
also there's the issue of spreading it around wider society even if you don't personally know them, some may be vulnerable or care for vulnerable people too.

There is an issue of some people have financial issue but putting that aside the moral imperative is clear.

How would you feel if a paid carer ignored it and one of your family then died?

My MIL died last year in a nursing home and I don't believe anyone was to blame, but what if someone was to blame?

In that light do you think we should all blindly ignore it?

That's seperate of course to the genuine hardship some might face if forced to isolate but they'd have the same issue with not being paid if they got flu or a heart attack.

lisyloo

Pollycat said:

sweetgirl2015 said:

Andy_L said:

There is, and never has been,  any legal requirement to isolate if pinged by the app

So what was the point of it then? I thought it was a legal requirement hence why the government created the furlough scheme.
It may aswell not exist if people dont obide by it. 
That said I just been pinged myself and faced with all sorts of problems. Mine being I deal with vunerable people, so surely I should follow the requirements, legal or otherwise? 

What is the bigger risk?

You actually having covid and passing it on to the people you are caring for?

Or those people you care for going without food because you are not there to prepare it?

Or trying to do something that you usually do for them and having an accident? Like leaving the gas on or standing on a chair to get something out of a cupboard?

That assumes that absolutely no-one else can feed these people (I believe the people concerned have a son who has not been pinged).

I don't believe anyone is really facing that choice.
There are social services, charities, churches, paid carers, volunteers and even their own son.

lisyloo

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Pollycat

lisyloo said:

Pollycat said:

sweetgirl2015 said:

Andy_L said:

There is, and never has been,  any legal requirement to isolate if pinged by the app

So what was the point of it then? I thought it was a legal requirement hence why the government created the furlough scheme.
It may aswell not exist if people dont obide by it. 
That said I just been pinged myself and faced with all sorts of problems. Mine being I deal with vunerable people, so surely I should follow the requirements, legal or otherwise? 

What is the bigger risk?

You actually having covid and passing it on to the people you are caring for?

Or those people you care for going without food because you are not there to prepare it?

Or trying to do something that you usually do for them and having an accident? Like leaving the gas on or standing on a chair to get something out of a cupboard?

That assumes that absolutely no-one else can feed these people (I believe the people concerned have a son who has not been pinged).

I don't believe anyone is really facing that choice.
There are social services, charities, churches, paid carers, volunteers and even their own son.

I was not assuming anything.

That poster asked for ideas on coping after being pinged and having responsibility for 3 people on her other thread.

I offered suggestions on that thread.

As did you.

As one of those suggestions I asked if there were adult children.

The OP of that thread has not responded.

I have not seen any mention of a son on that or this thread (although I may have missed it).

p3ncilsharpener

lisyloo said:

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Recording details for track and trace is no longer a legal requirement as of July 19th. (And most places weren't required to take these details anyway.)

Pollycat

p3ncilsharpener said:

lisyloo said:

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Recording details for track and trace is no longer a legal requirement as of July 19th. (And most places weren't required to take these details anyway.)

Agreed.

Shops certainly weren't required to take details.

Nor were buses or other forms of public transport..

In fact the only places I visited that I gave my contact details to was my local pub.

Oh - and maybe a restaurant I visited this time last year.

p3ncilsharpener

Pollycat said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

lisyloo said:

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Recording details for track and trace is no longer a legal requirement as of July 19th. (And most places weren't required to take these details anyway.)

Agreed.

Shops certainly weren't required to take details.

Nor were buses or other forms of public transport..

In fact the only places I visited that I gave my contact details to was my local pub.

Oh - and maybe a restaurant I visited this time last year.

The whole track and trace thing was a farce anyway. There seemed to be little motivation to enforce it after a couple of months and anyone who didn't want to be told to self-isolate could easily avoid it by giving fake details, pretending to scan the QR code but not or just scanning the QR code and ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

Pollycat

p3ncilsharpener said:

Pollycat said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

lisyloo said:

Brie said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It may as well not exist if people do not abide by it, but many people do and will abide by it, reducing transmission even if by a small and unknown amount, hence it exists.

Thanks for this Matt - I was thinking what's the point of the app but more from the point of view that there's lots of us who don't have it.  In my case because my phone isn't bright enough for the new fanngled techo.  Hence I was working on the assumption that there should be some way to track all of us somehow.  But you are very right that even a flawed system (according to the news reports) is better than none if it reduces transmission a bit.   

I was in fact annoyed that the new and very expensive iPhone provided by my employer has provided also cannot have the app on it.  This is due to security issues and the fact that only approved business related apps can be added.  And the NHS one isn't.  I really think that my employer really dropped the ball on this one.  

Any establishments you visit should be taking your details on paper.
Obviously that doesn't cover you on the bus like an app does, but there is a system in place.
I have been to some establishments that aren't enforcing it and many are paying lip service, but there IS a system.

Recording details for track and trace is no longer a legal requirement as of July 19th. (And most places weren't required to take these details anyway.)

Agreed.

Shops certainly weren't required to take details.

Nor were buses or other forms of public transport..

In fact the only places I visited that I gave my contact details to was my local pub.

Oh - and maybe a restaurant I visited this time last year.

The whole track and trace thing was a farce anyway. There seemed to be little motivation to enforce it after a couple of months and anyone who didn't want to be told to self-isolate could easily avoid it by giving fake details, pretending to scan the QR code but not or just scanning the QR code and ignoring it if pinged as there is not legal requirement to self-isolate from app notifications.

I provided my details when required to do so.

Accurate details, not faked.

I have never been contacted by Test and Trace - probably because I've pretty careful about where I've been and and when.

briskbeats

I gave contact details when got haircut and visited a couple of tourist places. Though this was before 19/7.

Went inside a KFC to dine in yesterday and no need to give contact information

Though noticed some eating places still got a track n trace QR code at entrance. Have these places forget to remove them?