Can anyone comment on this boundary issue

Tyler_Durden_UK

Going to message this to my neighbour.
 Hi [name] just wanted to let you know that since I removed your plants from my property (and potted them and watered them) it seems that somebody has in the last few days put them back onto my property, unfortunately in doing so they managed to dislodge one of the plants from its pot. I have put them back onto your drive, but cannot continue to water them. I'd also like to state this, so we are clear - you do NOT have permission to come on to my land without my specific consent. 

Jeepers_Creepers

The problem is, Tyler, you don't know if your neighb did this, since your bludy ring wasn't doing its job. You should also know that this person will almost certainly be highly devious, and will take advantage of any omission in what you say or do. He 'knows' he's in the wrong (tho' he'll never admit it), so knows he cannot tackle this the proper 'legal route'. So he is instead going to keep prodding and pressing your buttons and will shout "Hah!" whenever he can find a slip.

So I'd suggest there's too much info in your intended message, and also - since you don't know (can't prove) it was him wot dun it - if you say to him you are going to stop watering them, he'll very likely let this happen and then shout "you've killed my plants!"

As soon as you know and can prove that he, or someone else from his family, did this, then you can give an ultimatum, perhaps as suggested by S62.

Until then, should he start shouting, "You said you'd water my plants and you didn't - it wasn't ME who put them back on your land and yet you are punishing me!", you'd be put on the back foot. And that's all this guy wants - P&C. Believe it. It feeds him.

So, in the first instance, short and concise; "I notice you have replaced your plants on to my land. I have removed them. Just so this is absolutely clear - you do NOT have permission to come on to my land without my specific consent." (It doesn't matter if it wasn't him - he still gets the 'message'.)

Should he return them again after this, and you have video proof, then I think you can take it to the next level. I'd suggest you don't even have to give him another chance to not replace them - he's been told not to, and yet he's done it; you just simply move them to your back garden and keep them watered there, ideally out of his sight. It's not theft - he's put them on your land. You've already returned them, and he's put them back after you expressly forbade him from doing so again! You are just taking action to protect the plants, and stop the silliness.

The ball's then in his court. He has two choices; he can ask for them back, and that's fine - provided he first agrees (in a recorded manner) never to trespass again. And that he provides receptacles or a sheet to put them on - because you are keeping your pots. So that would be great, and recorded - him getting a sheet out, and then removing the plants from your pots. Your ring will have his acceptance recorded, so it'll look very bad on him should he renege. "Of course you can have them back - but not in my pots. And also when you give your word you will not trespass on my land again. Agreed?!" Keep repeating that, and make sure your bludy camera is working. Ignore any daft threats - "I'm going legal!" - just smile and repeat your offer.

What else can he do? He's stuffed! If he shouts "Plant thief!" and calls the cops, it'll be great - honestly - sitting them down and going through what's been going on, and having the texts and videos to prove you've been as reasonable and tolerant as can be. And he's been a twit. That will stop it.

Cops are not stupid. They also have a lot of experience with dealing with disputes like this. Two times over my life I've had to call the police over nutjobs, one a neighb and one who pranged my parked car and who went loopy when I followed the address kindly left by a witness to their door. In both cases, the cop listened attentively, shook their head in resigned disbelief, and came back from their visits saying "Wow - that was a real doozie!" and "They've been told to sort it/cease and desist' Let me know if it carries on..."

Silver_Shark

I agree with Jeepers, if the plants are put on your land again move them to your back garden but keep them watered, they are in your pots. If the neighbour wants their plants back they'll have to come and ask you for them.

Section62

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

"I'd also like to state this, so we are clear - you do NOT have permission to come on to my land without my specific consent."

I don't think you should say this.

Firstly, it is pointless.  The neighbour thinks the land in question belongs to them, so this statement has no impact on whether or not they will go on the land they think is theirs.  Their retort if you shout at them that you told them not to come onto your land without your specific consent would probably be "We are on our land, stop shouting at us"

You need to be specific about the land you don't want them to interfere with - the area next to your driveway. And you need to be specific about the actions/behaviour you want to stop.  E.g. otherwise they could easily replant the plants whilst standing on their drive and truthfully say they haven't been onto your land.


Secondly, as worded it amounts to a 'WOIRA'.  Though you are fully entitled to do so, issuing a WOIRA needs to be done carefully with thought given to unintended consequences.  They are a bad idea with TV Licensing and potentially even worse with a neighbour.

E.g. Your neighbour would be unable to come round to put misdelivered post through your door.  Maybe your postperson never misdelivers post, and maybe the neighbour wouldn't bring it round if they did, but a WORIA would ensure that they can't without first obtaining your specific consent.  Likewise, if a courier delivers your parcel to the neighbour, the neighbour won't be able to just bring it over to you. Or even come round to let you know they have it.

And in more extreme circumstances if something nasty happens to your property - or you - the neighbour should follow your instruction not to come onto your land without your specific consent.  If you aren't present or are incapable of giving consent then what do they do? Although they are unlikely to get into trouble if they did ignore your instruction in these circumstances, your use of a WOIRA would give them moral absolution if they chose to just stand on their drive and watch your misfortune.

Jeepers_Creepers

Section62 said:

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

"I'd also like to state this, so we are clear - you do NOT have permission to come on to my land without my specific consent."

I don't think you should say this.

Firstly, it is pointless.  The neighbour thinks the land in question belongs to them, so this statement has no impact on whether or not they will go on the land they think is theirs.  Their retort if you shout at them that you told them not to come onto your land without your specific consent would probably be "We are on our land, stop shouting at us"

You need to be specific about the land you don't want them to interfere with - the area next to your driveway. And you need to be specific about the actions/behaviour you want to stop.  E.g. otherwise they could easily replant the plants whilst standing on their drive and truthfully say they haven't been onto your land.


Secondly, as worded it amounts to a 'WOIRA'.  Though you are fully entitled to do so, issuing a WOIRA needs to be done carefully with thought given to unintended consequences.  They are a bad idea with TV Licensing and potentially even worse with a neighbour.

E.g. Your neighbour would be unable to come round to put misdelivered post through your door.  Maybe your postperson never misdelivers post, and maybe the neighbour wouldn't bring it round if they did, but a WORIA would ensure that they can't without first obtaining your specific consent.  Likewise, if a courier delivers your parcel to the neighbour, the neighbour won't be able to just bring it over to you. Or even come round to let you know they have it.

And in more extreme circumstances if something nasty happens to your property - or you - the neighbour should follow your instruction not to come onto your land without your specific consent.  If you aren't present or are incapable of giving consent then what do they do? Although they are unlikely to get into trouble if they did ignore your instruction in these circumstances, your use of a WOIRA would give them moral absolution if they chose to just stand on their drive and watch your misfortune.

Fair point about being more specific about the area concerned, and what you want to restrict.

But let's be clear, this neighbour does not think this land is theirs, any more than they believed the council's land was ditto - they are trying to grab it using their version of adverse possession.

However, they since Tyler ain't going 'legal' to resolve this (because he doesn't have LP...), then he needs to handle it with kid gloves until a 'head' it reached, which will very likely involve the police being called at some point, either by Tyler or the neighb. But that will then almost certainly resolve it satisfactorily.

carefullycautious

Would it not be easier and simpler to  say that the plants that were removed from your land {which you believe the neighbour planted}  if they want them back to contact you within x amount of  days. If you have no response you will be disposing of them. Keep copy of letter.

Jeepers_Creepers

carefullycautious said:

Would it not be easier and simpler to  say that the plants that were removed from your land {which you believe the neighbour planted}  if they want them back to contact you within x amount of  days. If you have no response you will be disposing of them. Keep copy of letter.

That's far too easy...

This neighb is sneaky, tho', and is seemingly happy to claim they are ill and unavailable when it suits them. And then turn up 'wondering' what Tyler has done with his plants.

BikingBud

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I'm thinking that perhaps Tyler (esp if that's his real name) may wish to now ask MSE to delete this thread, and he can always start a new one - under a new username - to ask any 'general' follow-up questions.

In the unlikely event that his neighbourly issue doesn't just fizzle out, the thread has a lot of info on it.

TYLER!

Sssshhhhhh!

Ms_Chocaholic

How are you getting on Tyler?

Tyler_Durden_UK

Ms_Chocaholic said:

How are you getting on Tyler?

I'm good, no further contact from my neighbour or her solicitor. The acer tree remains on my property. I'm going to wait until autumn kicks in and then remove and replant it in a pot. I'll of course notify my neighbour when I do so.