Can anyone comment on this boundary issue

MaryNB

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

Quick update for you all, no letters or contact off the back of my neighbours 'you'll be hearing from my solicitor' statement.
However, today I went to get something from my car and someone has (in the last few days / 24 hours) moved the pots with my neighbours plants in back onto my drive. In doing so one of the plants has been dislodged from the pot.
I do have a ring type camera on my front door but it didn't pick up anything. Have moved the pots back onto neighbours drive.

Just in case you're having the same problem with your doorbell as I was - mine defaulted to medium battery power and would go to sleep for a few minutes after recording something (I wasn't aware of this). I missed a few key things including someone fly tipping against my front wall. 

Tyler_Durden_UK

Norman_Castle said:

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

 someone has (in the last few days / 24 hours) moved the pots with my neighbours plants in back onto my drive.

Onto your block paving or back to their original position?

Pretty much back to original position, I've adjusted the camera covering my front door area to now cover that section of my drive. 

Silver_Shark

Are your neighbours back in their house? Threatening you with legal action could well be bluff and bluster but putting the plants back onto your land is trespass but that's not a criminal act but a civil matter. You definitely need to catch them at it.

Jeepers_Creepers

Lol, Tyler! What a time for your camera to let you down. Lawdie.

I strongly suspect that the BS neighb perhaps even went as far as trying to see if a solicitor would take on this 'case', but was told (a) they had next-to-zero chance, and (b) it would cost them a potentially significant sum when they'd, almost certainly, lose.

Faced with that, he's resorting to his basic functioning level - pathetic harassment and intimidation. He has to 'win' at something.

I suggest you nip this in its hugely overlong bud, because frankly this is ridiculous. Had you caught him in the act the first time, then I'd have suggested you do call up the local Bobby(ette), apologise profusely for calling on their valuable time for what must appear to be such a trivial matter, but that you fear it has now crossed into deliberate 'harassment' and 'intimidating' behaviour, and that it will almost certainly escalate as the guy has shown himself to be off-the-scale delusional. When they attend, you explain briefly the issue; "There's the deeds - it's my land, always has been. The neighb has also been tending that patch - I assumed because he wanted it to look tidy too - but then he suddenly claimed it was his because he also looked after it. He's tried this on with the council on the other side too - just fenced off a section of land and said it was his. I've given him advance notice about his plants - here's my messages to him, and there's his silly threats to engage solicitors - and then removed his plants when I said he would. I even put them in pots and watered them to keep them safe for him - he has done nothing about them for weeks - until now. I don't want this to escalate into literal mud-slinging and breach-of-the-peace territory, but I am concerned that's what will happen; he isn't simply going to stop until forced to do so. I am actually concerned at what he might try next - he is not a rational person, and he does these things during the night or when I'm out. Could you have a word, please? Oh, and if I give him, say, a couple of day's notice, could I take my pots back and leave his plants on his drive on a sheet?"

Lawdie - this thread wouldn't have gorn past 5 posts for the sake of £25*

Tyler, does your ring work in the dark (Missus!) Did you take dated photos of the repositioned pots? Have you noted all this down in your chrono record? Good.

Now, give your camera lens a wipe. Perhaps a text; "I notice you have replaced your plants on to my land. I have removed them. Just so this is clear - you do NOT have permission to come on to my land without my specific consent." This will keep the situation completely clear, because otherwise the 'logic' of these folk includes "He said nuffink. If he didn't want them back he'd have said..."

You know that this is their level of devious thinking.

He also wants you to react in the same way as him - tit-for-tat - until you do something he can claim is 'wrong', like just throwing the plants away or over his drive. Then he's won that battle at least - and 'winning' is all he cares about (this is about 'power' and 'control'. It's not about gaining a few square feet of land per se, it's about what getting this means to him - how it satisfies a pathetic narcissistic part of his 'brain').

So you keep your utter calm and bemusement when dealing with him - show him you just think this is nuts and so is he; shake your head in disbelief, tell him you cannot believe an adult acts like this (that's what I said to a neighb yonks ago when he, too, tried to get me to descend to his aggressive, arm-waving, level, and his pulsating temples were a sight to behold).

This is a game of P&C, so you play it on your calm and rational terms. But also call the police next time :-)

*Yes, LP on yer insurance.

Norman_Castle

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

Norman_Castle said:

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

 someone has (in the last few days / 24 hours) moved the pots with my neighbours plants in back onto my drive.

Onto your block paving or back to their original position?

Pretty much back to original position, I've adjusted the camera covering my front door area to now cover that section of my drive. 

You've offered the plants back and they've been rejected. Plant them elsewhere or offer them to neighbours. Repeatedly returning them is argumentative and unnecessary which putting them elsewhere ends.

I'd also suspect they're not obliged to take them.

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I strongly suspect that the BS neighb perhaps even went as far as trying to see if a solicitor would take on this 'case', but was told (a) they had next-to-zero chance, and (b) it would cost them a potentially significant sum when they'd, almost certainly, lose.

Faced with that, he's resorting to his basic functioning level - pathetic harassment and intimidation. He has to 'win' at something.

There's a fairly obvious possible (c) - the solicitor told them if they think the land is theirs to just replant their plants that the 'unreasonable' neighbour dug up and dumped on their drive.

There's likely to be possibilities of (d), (e), (f), (g).... as well.


Rather than delving into this pseudo-psychoanalysis and guessing at the neighbour's motivations, the obvious thing for Tyler to do next is to simply ask the neighbour if they moved the plants, and if so why.

Having that 'on record' is far more use if this goes 'legal' than capturing video of the neighbour 'in the act' - which does nothing other than confirm who moved the plants.

Jeepers_Creepers

Section62 said:

 possible (c) - the solicitor told them if they think the land is theirs to just replant their plants that the 'unreasonable' neighbour dug up and dumped on their drive.

Rather than delving into this pseudo-psychoanalysis and guessing at the neighbour's motivations, the obvious thing for Tyler to do next is to simply ask the neighbour if they moved the plants, and if so why.

When they reply, "Yes, I did - because it's my land", what should Tyler do next?

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Section62 said:

 possible (c) - the solicitor told them if they think the land is theirs to just replant their plants that the 'unreasonable' neighbour dug up and dumped on their drive.

Rather than delving into this pseudo-psychoanalysis and guessing at the neighbour's motivations, the obvious thing for Tyler to do next is to simply ask the neighbour if they moved the plants, and if so why.

When they reply, "Yes, I did - because it's my land", what should Tyler do next?

Consult a solicitor?

Alternatively, a relatively benign response would be to reply reaffirming his belief the land is his, that he will be removing the plants back onto the neighbour's drive, and should they reappear then he will deem them to be a gift from the neighbour which will entitle him to make use of or dispose of them as he sees fit. (I wouldn't actually dispose of them, just shift them (still in pots) into my back garden)


The ball is then back in the neighbour's court.  They have options including buying new plants (rinse and repeat), or perhaps calling the police and accusing Tyler of theft.  If that happened, Tyler could explain the situation to the police, provide the text messages as 'proof', and offer to return the neighbour's gift (seeing that they now apparently regret their generosity) but could the bobby/ette please explain to them that you can't put your plants on other people's land and get upset when the rightful land owner moves them.


Either approach would avoid the risk of accusing a neighbour of "'harassment' and 'intimidating' behaviour" - which in the best of circumstances is difficult to demonstrate, and in this case has a fundamental problem of showing motive - from the neighbour's perspective they could simply be trying to keep their plants on land they own.

It also avoids being the cause of an unnecessary waste of police time in what is essentially a civil dispute.

Jeepers_Creepers

Cool - I like

DB1904

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Lol, Tyler! What a time for your camera to let you down. Lawdie.

I strongly suspect that the BS neighb perhaps even went as far as trying to see if a solicitor would take on this 'case', but was told (a) they had next-to-zero chance, and (b) it would cost them a potentially significant sum when they'd, almost certainly, lose.

Faced with that, he's resorting to his basic functioning level - pathetic harassment and intimidation. He has to 'win' at something.

I suggest you nip this in its hugely overlong bud, because frankly this is ridiculous. Had you caught him in the act the first time, then I'd have suggested you do call up the local Bobby(ette), apologise profusely for calling on their valuable time for what must appear to be such a trivial matter, but that you fear it has now crossed into deliberate 'harassment' and 'intimidating' behaviour, and that it will almost certainly escalate as the guy has shown himself to be off-the-scale delusional. When they attend, you explain briefly the issue; "There's the deeds - it's my land, always has been. The neighb has also been tending that patch - I assumed because he wanted it to look tidy too - but then he suddenly claimed it was his because he also looked after it. He's tried this on with the council on the other side too - just fenced off a section of land and said it was his. I've given him advance notice about his plants - here's my messages to him, and there's his silly threats to engage solicitors - and then removed his plants when I said he would. I even put them in pots and watered them to keep them safe for him - he has done nothing about them for weeks - until now. I don't want this to escalate into literal mud-slinging and breach-of-the-peace territory, but I am concerned that's what will happen; he isn't simply going to stop until forced to do so. I am actually concerned at what he might try next - he is not a rational person, and he does these things during the night or when I'm out. Could you have a word, please? Oh, and if I give him, say, a couple of day's notice, could I take my pots back and leave his plants on his drive on a sheet?"

Lawdie - this thread wouldn't have gorn past 5 posts for the sake of £25*

Tyler, does your ring work in the dark (Missus!) Did you take dated photos of the repositioned pots? Have you noted all this down in your chrono record? Good.

Now, give your camera lens a wipe. Perhaps a text; "I notice you have replaced your plants on to my land. I have removed them. Just so this is clear - you do NOT have permission to come on to my land without my specific consent." This will keep the situation completely clear, because otherwise the 'logic' of these folk includes "He said nuffink. If he didn't want them back he'd have said..."

You know that this is their level of devious thinking.

He also wants you to react in the same way as him - tit-for-tat - until you do something he can claim is 'wrong', like just throwing the plants away or over his drive. Then he's won that battle at least - and 'winning' is all he cares about (this is about 'power' and 'control'. It's not about gaining a few square feet of land per se, it's about what getting this means to him - how it satisfies a pathetic narcissistic part of his 'brain').

So you keep your utter calm and bemusement when dealing with him - show him you just think this is nuts and so is he; shake your head in disbelief, tell him you cannot believe an adult acts like this (that's what I said to a neighb yonks ago when he, too, tried to get me to descend to his aggressive, arm-waving, level, and his pulsating temples were a sight to behold).

This is a game of P&C, so you play it on your calm and rational terms. But also call the police next time :-)

*Yes, LP on yer insurance.

This one off act doesn't amount to a course of conduct making it harassment.