Paid for parking but still received a fine - how to dispute and resolve ?

sky_rat

I was surprised and angry to receive a parking fine in the post from Napier Parking, because I had paid for parking at the machine using my debit card and it even printed a receipt.

The car park is at Willen Lake in Milton Keynes where I had taken my daughter to.  I only live 1 mile away from Willen Lake and have taken my daughter there many times, so I am well aware that the car park has ANPR and I know I would be fined if I did not pay for a ticket.  With the lake being so close to home we would usually walk or take our bikes.  However, I chose to drive this time because my daughter has just started family based therapy treatment for Anorexia Nervosa and she is not allowed exercise or burn calories (the NHS specialist can confirm this is all true).  We couldn’t walk around the lake, we just sat on the grass and had an ice cream which is part of her meal plan (she must have a snack between meals to meet her daily calorie intake).

There was some confusion at first because I tried to pay for the ticket when I arrived.  There was a queue at the machine and the people at the front were struggling to pay, so instead I tried to pay using the JustPark app on my phone.  I wanted to pay for a few hours but it would only let me pay for 15 minutes.  So I waited to pay at the machine but had the same issue, then someone who was walking past explained that payment has to be made on exit.

My daughter met with her friend at the lake (who was with her dad) and my daughters friends dad paid for the ticket at the same time as me. So he witnessed it, although I guess this won’t be accepted as friends aren’t usually allowed to be a witness.  I paid by debit card and got a receipt, he paid using coins but didn't get a receipt which I thought was a bit strange ?

Initially I thought I could use my bank statement to prove I had paid for the parking, but for some reason it has not appeared on my statement.

This makes the whole situation worse, because I did the right thing but I am being penalised.  If I had not paid for the ticket then I could understand receiving a fine and just get on and accept it.  It’s not like I can't afford the fine, its purely the principle.  I am happy to pay the parking fee that for some reason had not come out of my account, but I am not happy to pay the fine on principle.

I can’t understand what has happened and why, because I paid at the machine when I left and got a receipt.  Like I say, I had no intention of not paying because living close by and visiting the lake for many years, I know full well that the car park uses ANPR (its also stated on signs) and there is no way to avoid a fine.

Has anything like this ever happened before?  There must be a fault or mistake somewhere with the machine or payment system, because I did pay but it doesn’t seem to have registered and now I am being fined for it. 

Unfortunately I did not keep the receipt, I only usually keep receipts for high value items.  If I kept every single receipt I receive I would have thousands and need a filing system to store and maintain them.

I would search for it in the rubbish for the receipt, but the rubbish has been collected since I received the fine.  I really wish I had the receipt so I could prove to them I paid for the ticket, I've searched the car and can't find it anywhere so it was probably binned.

I don’t know if the ticket machine is fitted with a camera or if there are surveillance cameras in the car park, but if there were any cameras then they would show me at the machine paying for the ticket.

Is there anyway I can dispute and resolve this ?  Like I say, its not that I can’t afford to pay the fine, it’s the principle.  If I had not paid for the ticket and got caught then I would just pay the fine and grin and bear it, knowing it was my own fault.  But in this case I did the right thing and I don’t think its fair to be penalised.

It also makes me wonder if this might have happened to anyone else, either at Willen Lake on that day of anywhere else ?

I've got enough going on worrying about my daughters health, I don't need fines being sent to me when I've not done anything wrong

Coupon-mad

You simply need to put it in writing what happened and you can certainly attach witness statements from others.  I say 'simply' because an IPC member PPC is likely to reject your appeal no matter what you say, because that's what we see them do, year in, year out.

The whole point is to put it in writing now and keep a copy for 6 years in case they later sue.  Your account and witness evidence would be crucial and also it looks so much better if you have no ignored it at this early stage and that your position is consistent.

sky_rat

Thanks Coupon-mad, so are you saying not to pay the fine and just to to write what happened and include a witness statement ?  I also read somewhere that you should not identify the driver ?

The fine is £60 but increases to £100 after 14 days.  I'm very nervous about not paying the fine, as Im worried that the fine will keep increasing and spiral out of control and I'll have bailiffs on my door and also if not paying could affect my credit rating ?

I was horrified but not surprised to find its not just happened to me, there are reviews of Willen Lake on trip advisor and the same has happened to them (see screenshots below)

Its also been in the local press...

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/traffic-and-travel/have-you-received-unfair-parking-ticket-willen-lake-milton-keynes-939984

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/people/grandmother-wins-relentless-two-year-battle-over-parking-ticket-issued-at-willen-lake-in-milton-keynes-3166214

And in this forum...

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t123446.html

If this is happening so commonly, how can Napier get away with these threatening fines ?

I'm going to 

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

sky_rat

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

I've not done anything yet other than some research and this post, I wanted guidance first on how to proceed.  I don't know anything about politics so not sure who the MP is and how to contact them.  

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

The charge is, and always will be £100. Bailiffs will not come to your door unless you get taken to court, lose, and fail to pay the judgment within the prescribed time. All of this is in your control.
Even if you lost, the maximum cost would be £175 - £200, but you are a long way from court at the moment.

Start by complaining to the landowner. That is always Plan A, and it is never too late to do so.

If a cancellation is not forthcoming, send the initial appeal template in blue text from the NEWBIES.
Send it from The Keeper, unaltered save for comments about the failure of the PDT machine. Do not reveal the driver's identity at this stage. It may or may not be useful later to do this. That will depend on whether or not the NTK is or isn't PoFA compliant. The NEWBIES explains how to do check this.

If/when it is rejected, then decide if you want to make an IAS appeal. That's when you relate the story from your initial post. It is also when you decide if it is better to reveal the driver's identity.


You can easily find your MP using this website.


WriteToThem - Email your Councillor, MP, MSP, MS, MLA or London Assembly Member for free

sky_rat

BINGO !!!! 

I've contacted my bank using online chat and they told me "I can see pending transaction on the 6th of June for £1.50 with Willen Lake car park . The authorization fell off as the company did not cleared the payment."  I'm going to ask them to confirm this in writing as evidence to appeal, presumably Napier Parking won't have a leg to stand on ?

I dont understand what the bank means by "the authorization fell off as the company did not cleared the payment", it sounds like Napier did not take the payment ?  

This must be illegal, to not take the transaction and therefore enable them to issue a fine ?  So instead of making £1.50 profit for a parking ticket they make £60 profit for a fine !!!  How can they get away with this ??

sky_rat

Explanation from my bank... "Basically once a payment has been processed on the card , HSBC authorise it and deduct the amount from your available balance. The authorisation is live for up to 5 working days, so the company can verify the payment and it will then be deducted from your statement balance. If the company voids the payment then the authorisation will be cancelled and the money will be made available to you again in your available balance.'

So it sounds like Napier do this deliberately so they can issue fines instead.... and they are allowed to get away with this ???

sky_rat

Followed by "From what we see the company voided the transaction as it is not posted on the statement."

THIS IS ILLEGAL THEY SHOULD BE HEAVILY FINED AND SHUT DOWN !

Fruitcake

Good work with your bank.

What was the precise reason given for the issue of a PCN? Was it for non payment, failure to display a ticket, or something else?

You can look on the PPC's website as if you are going to pay, but obviously don't, to see what photos they have. 

You should also go back to the site, on foot, and take pics of the site and signage, including the PDT machine. It is the signs that from the alleged contract with the motorist.

You could even take a video of trying to pay. It might be worth it if the minimum charge is say 50p, and you can try to enter a bogus VRM to see what the screen shows, and what gets printed out on the ticket.
You could also warn other motorists if there are any around. 

KeithP

sky_rat said:

THIS IS ILLEGAL THEY SHOULD BE HEAVILY FINED AND SHUT DOWN !

No point in shouting that on this forum.
So what are you going to do about it then?

As said earlier, you need to shout at your Member of Parliament about that.
This is nothing to do with politics.
This is about your right to voice an opinion where it matters.