Lending money to sibling

getmore4less

Who has been driving all this essential work on the house?

I would simplify

They have a house but messed up.

Your money is all allocated so you can have a house, don't give it away.

sheramber

With the background you have given I would say no.

As already said, if the marriage is in difficulty what happens if they do split up and have to sell the house. Will there be any equity available to pay you back. If not, your sibling is not going to be able to repay you.

What are they fighting about? Money?

sassyblue

No I wouldn’t lend anything. Your need is greater.

your sister has a habit of spending beyond her means and will never learn, her relationship problems are not your problem either. I can see you lending money that will be swallowed up in a divorce and you'll probably never see your money again.

Grumpy_chap

I have a lot of sympathy for the OP wanting to help, but this is an occasion where the OP need's to put themselves first.  I actually fear the OP is at risk of be taken advantage of because of their good nature but, more importantly, the OP cannot afford to lose this money, they say so themselves:

boldaslove said:

I’ve since stuck my share of the money in various savings/bonds accounts and I’m now going to use the majority of it to purchase my first home with my partner, with some left over as savings for retirement and a safety net. It’s been a tough year for my partner and I : COVID essentially meant I was redundant in 2020 as I’m self employed and work in the events industry which all but collapsed last year. Work is slowly crawling back now but is very uncertain, to the point where I’m applying for salaried jobs in other sectors in order to ensure some security for us. Additionally my partner had a health crisis before Christmas last year and had life-changing emergency surgery. They’ve been on long term sick ever since and are only just returning to work now, plus they’ll need another major operation in the future which will require further time off and we won’t know when this will be. We’ve been living with my partners family for the past few years while we prepare for buying our house and we live pretty frugally.

The OP has sacrificed the good life in the here and now by living frugally so that they have a safety net and can make the step onto the housing ladder.

Conversely, the sibling has lived beyond their means to have much that the OP has not yet enjoyed:

boldaslove said:

My sibling is married with a young child. Both they and their spouse have good stable jobs and are comfortable as far as I know. They own their home, have 2 cars which they change up fairly regularly, are always getting work done to the house, they can afford decent food from places like Waitrose and are often buying their child expensive toys and games. No criticism from me here; they’re entitled to live they way they like and I’m happy for them. 

The sibling is clearly not comfortably off and cannot afford the regular new cars, work on the house, expensive toys or Waitrose.  Rather than seeking a bail out from family members, the sibling needs to learn very quickly to live within their means.

It is not for the OP, who has been thrifty, to bail out the extravagant sibling.

Nor would I say that the father should advance make the gift to the sibling, but that is not the OP's decision.  Will the father also make a similarly large gift to the OP?

Ultimately there comes a time when the sibling will need to spend within their limits and not always expect a bail-out.

Time for some tough-love and, if the OP really wants to help the sibling, provide details of debt charities and counselling services where the sibling lives so that the sibling can regularise their lives.

couriervanman

As already mentioned don't expect to get it back

Keep_pedalling

I have three words of advice 

No, no and no.

I would only do this if I could afford to lose it, and it does not sound like you can. Tell your sibling that you simply can’t afford to do it, they may be upset, but that is nothing to what a loan going pear shaped will do to your relationship.

barbiedoll

I agree with everyone else, this has disaster written all over it. Your sister has spent her inheritance (on nice cars, expensive toys and Waitrose food?) and now expects you to bail her out because she needs "essential" work on her house? Why can't she sell one of her nice cars and use the cash to buy an old banger to tide her over, and use the rest of the money on these so-called essential repairs? It's the sort of thing that lots of us have had to do to make ends meet. We used to be a two-car household but our circumstances changed and we now have only one (which is still one more than lots of folk can afford).

Please don't give in to the emotional blackmail of her failing marriage, and the kids losing the roof over their heads. You can lend/give her as much money as you have in all of your accounts, but all this will do is prolong the inevitable. She's got a spending problem, and her partner will find out sooner or later. Are you going to let her take you down with her? After all of your hard work and sacrifices? Of course you shouldn't. It's not even about you, it's about getting her to have her "lightbulb moment" and facing up to her issues. Your dad needs to get a grip too, he really isn't doing her any favours by bailing her out, she needs to grow up and take charge of her own life. If Waitrose food is that important to her, the essential repairs will have to wait. She clearly can't afford both!

Tell her that your money is earmarked for your own house purchase and that she'll just have to cut down on frivolities,  like you did when your cash flow dried up. If anyone can show her what to do, it's you. I can't believe that after the year that you and your partner have endured, she has the cheek to ask you for a bailout. Don' t do it. Send her to this site instead! 

boldaslove

RAS said:

The stark fact is that if your sibling is going to repay you, then their capacity to spend on the stuff they've been used to buying is going to suffer and will be noticeable to their spouse. So sooner or later questions will be asked.

Then it will be awfully tempting to pretend everything is OK and stop paying you so they can cover up the cover-up.

This is a really good point I hadn’t thought of. I think their spouse does keep fairly close tabs on their spending normally so a few hundred pounds a month would be noticed by them.

Mojisola said:

The couple sound as if they haven't made any provision for their own safety net but are living up to (and beyond) their income - not wise.

I actually think that the couples combined income is fine - my dad certainly doesn’t think they have any money issues. I think this is them not wanting to ‘fess up to their spouse that they’ve made a mistake.

RAS said:

Suggest they get relationship counselling urgently and once they can talk more easily to each other, your sibling needs to get the counsellor to help tell their spouse, in a safer environment. It may mean the end of the relationship, or it may make it work.

My in-law is dead against this apparently as this has already been suggested - not a good sign and I’m very worried about this.

gettingtheresometime said:

How do you miscalculate the amount you have in a savings account?

I’ve done this lately so I don’t have the moral high ground on this point! But in my defence I’m dyslexic and dyspraxic, and I mix certain numbers up very easily. I suspect in my siblings case they might not have been keeping a close eye on their spending.

Retireinten said:

You should not be pressured to lend anyone money, no matter the story or reason behind it.  And certainly not with your own circumstances being so up in the air still. The past year has all made us appreciate just how important a decent sized emergency found is, please don't risk yours.


And if their marriage is in so much trouble already, your sibling admitting to a renovation shortfall is no more likely to end their marriage than hiding debt is...


And I second that the reason given for needing the loan doesn't up.  You may not be doing your sibling any favours by lending this money. 

This year has been so difficult and honestly the fact I have the stability of a partner and the security of a safety net are the 2 things that have stopped me from complete despair. My partner doesn’t have a definite diagnosis yet so we don’t know what’s in store for us - they could be permanently disabled and/or have a long term chronic health condition. The correctional surgery is risky. They were in such a mess after the emergency op last year that I essentially was their carer for a few months so I’d potentially have to not work for a period of time again if the correctional op goes ahead. I was honest with my sibling and explained this and they didn’t push it but they also didn’t retract the request so I feel like this didn’t really get through to them? I mentioned my partner had had loads of medical appointments over the past week (to explain why I’ve not been joining the group family facetimes) and they didn’t ask me how they went which kind of sucked to be honest! 

sevenhills

Give them an amount you can afford, say £1,000 do not lend a larger sum.

Your Dad may cover all the rest.

Sea_Shell

boldaslove said:

RAS said:

The stark fact is that if your sibling is going to repay you, then their capacity to spend on the stuff they've been used to buying is going to suffer and will be noticeable to their spouse. So sooner or later questions will be asked.

Then it will be awfully tempting to pretend everything is OK and stop paying you so they can cover up the cover-up.

This is a really good point I hadn’t thought of. I think their spouse does keep fairly close tabs on their spending normally so a few hundred pounds a month would be noticed by them.

Mojisola said:

The couple sound as if they haven't made any provision for their own safety net but are living up to (and beyond) their income - not wise.

I actually think that the couples combined income is fine - my dad certainly doesn’t think they have any money issues. I think this is them not wanting to ‘fess up to their spouse that they’ve made a mistake.

RAS said:

Suggest they get relationship counselling urgently and once they can talk more easily to each other, your sibling needs to get the counsellor to help tell their spouse, in a safer environment. It may mean the end of the relationship, or it may make it work.

My in-law is dead against this apparently as this has already been suggested - not a good sign and I’m very worried about this.

gettingtheresometime said:

How do you miscalculate the amount you have in a savings account?

I’ve done this lately so I don’t have the moral high ground on this point! But in my defence I’m dyslexic and dyspraxic, and I mix certain numbers up very easily. I suspect in my siblings case they might not have been keeping a close eye on their spending.

Retireinten said:

You should not be pressured to lend anyone money, no matter the story or reason behind it.  And certainly not with your own circumstances being so up in the air still. The past year has all made us appreciate just how important a decent sized emergency found is, please don't risk yours.


And if their marriage is in so much trouble already, your sibling admitting to a renovation shortfall is no more likely to end their marriage than hiding debt is...


And I second that the reason given for needing the loan doesn't up.  You may not be doing your sibling any favours by lending this money. 

This year has been so difficult and honestly the fact I have the stability of a partner and the security of a safety net are the 2 things that have stopped me from complete despair. My partner doesn’t have a definite diagnosis yet so we don’t know what’s in store for us - they could be permanently disabled and/or have a long term chronic health condition. The correctional surgery is risky. They were in such a mess after the emergency op last year that I essentially was their carer for a few months so I’d potentially have to not work for a period of time again if the correctional op goes ahead. I was honest with my sibling and explained this and they didn’t push it but they also didn’t retract the request so I feel like this didn’t really get through to them? I mentioned my partner had had loads of medical appointments over the past week (to explain why I’ve not been joining the group family facetimes) and they didn’t ask me how they went which kind of sucked to be honest! 

This bit I've bolded stands out to me.    They don't seem to care about you.    They are in their own bubble and everything revolves around them.    What you're going through and have been through is just not on their radar.   This won't change, even if you did lend them any money (which you shouldn't).

You seem to still be wavering about the loan?     Don't let them play emotional games with you.     The words you need are "No, sorry"    If your Dad wants to get involved, that's up to him.    If he's happy to gift to one child and not the other, again that's his decision.

If they both have a problem with you saying NO, that's THEIR problem not yours.

Stay strong, and good luck.