Land Registry - Possible land owner conflict

kensiko

Good morning all

I am hoping the Land_Registry user on the forum could possibly help me make sense of plans at the rear of my property.  Or any other experts in the field for that matter.
Very short backstory - A large housing company built a new estate on what used to be fields directly behind our property.  This was recently completed after about 6 years or so.

This year I have been looking into building a summer house and when I saw my title registry for the first time I was shocked to see I owned slightly more land than originally thought.

It was decided to move our rear fence back approximately 3 meters onto unused land which separate my boundary fence and the footpath of the new estate as shown in the photo below:

The land in question I have (very crudely!) drawn a black line showing where the fence has been re-positioned. 
Since the fence has been moved the housing developers have contacted me asking to move the fence off their land and put it back where it once was.
The land has not been used or thought about from the estate owners and has in the past been used to dump bitumen, wood and bricks.

The title plan of my deeds show the following:

The title registry states:
"The land edged and lettered A in red on the filed plan added to the title on 12 May 1989"

This can be compared to my neighbours plan which shows no extra land area:


To add to the complications there is also a caution on parts of the land from 2008 as shown in these title plans:

The registry for this land states the following:
"Caution title closed as to the parts edged and lettered "X" on the title plan."
The middle "X" is the land directly behind my property so I was under the impression even this caution couldn't be used on this land because it is already owned my me as shown on my plans.

I have no idea if the housing estate are aware of any of this but as they have taken all the land up to the boundaries of all the properties this land should have been taken into account?  

The final image (sorry for all the pictures but I thought they might help) shows a 'live view' from early March this year which a solicitor looked up for me.  This shows all the land described above:

I understand land registry boundaries are not accurate but the extra area of land must mean something I would have thought? 
I am confused as to exactly who owns which parts of the land.

Thanks for reading and all the best.

user1977

The bits edged green show the areas which have been removed from the developer's title - i.e. that's consistent with the bit added to your title. I would just direct the developers to their (up to date) title if they're in doubt.

But you say "the land has not been used" - who's been cutting the grass?!

kensiko

user1977 said:

The bits edged green show the areas which have been removed from the developer's title - i.e. that's consistent with the bit added to your title. I would just direct the developers to their (up to date) title if they're in doubt.

But you say "the land has not been used" - who's been cutting the grass?!

Thanks for your response.
When you say 'the bits edged in green' are you referring to the land under caution title plan, the one with the 'X's?
If so that is my point also, but unfortunately I cannot get a copy online of the developers title plan.  I have the registry but the plan was too big for download and I would have to get a paper copy of this.
I am very interested to see that plan though as I am assuming their plan goes all the way up to the original boundary of our property and not taking into account any of the land on these title plans.

Good point about the grass, I just meant for such a small piece of land that is of no use to anybody and has in the past been used just to dump items.  I assume the council or the estate developers have in the past cut the grass as I haven't.

user1977

kensiko said:

user1977 said:

The bits edged green show the areas which have been removed from the developer's title - i.e. that's consistent with the bit added to your title. I would just direct the developers to their (up to date) title if they're in doubt.

But you say "the land has not been used" - who's been cutting the grass?!

When you say 'the bits edged in green' are you referring to the land under caution title plan, the one with the 'X's?

That's the only thing you've posted with anything outlined in green, so yes!

Section62

Part of understanding this will involve finding out what happened on or shortly before 12 May 1989 to cause the 'land edged and lettered A in red' on the filed plan to be added to the title.

Was ownership of the the additional land disputed/unknown?  Was it purchased from the owner of the field? Etc Etc.

And then whether there was a reason why the boundary fence wasn't moved.

Land_Registry

Your registered title shows the general boundaries and registered extent. Whilst not exact you should be able to get a good idea of whether it includes the parcel of land . 

Your neighbour’s title may help in some ways; the caution title is largely irrelevant if the land is within the part marked X; and the screenshot from MapSearch is simply an indication if what’s registered and the title plan matters most  
If you’ve moved the fence to include land you don’t have title to and/or the developer is saying they own it then I’d suggest either asking them to prove it; getting a copy of their title plan; and asking a surveyor to report on who owns what based on the 2 title plans (not the caution title ir MapSearch screenshot) 

kensiko

Section62 said:

Part of understanding this will involve finding out what happened on or shortly before 12 May 1989 to cause the 'land edged and lettered A in red' on the filed plan to be added to the title.

Was ownership of the the additional land disputed/unknown?  Was it purchased from the owner of the field? Etc Etc.

And then whether there was a reason why the boundary fence wasn't moved.

This is an unknown right now.  I have asked neighbours who have lived here longer than us if they were aware of anything or if they remember who lived here at that time but have heard nothing useful as yet.

It is one of the things I have wondered, if someone went to the trouble of getting the title register deeds changed, why then did they not move the boundary back.  It has always been on the same level as all the other houses since I have lived here.  It has always just been a field that backed onto our property, although the field directly behind us was never used as it was always a slope down into the field.

The caution still confuses me too, it seems in 2008 someone added a caution meaning the small patch of land may not have been part of the original field as it was never owned (if I understand that correctly)?  Then again if that was the case how were my deeds changed or did someone at my property in 1989 know this and just 'claim' that part of possibly not owned land until the caution was added many years later?

kensiko

Land_Registry said:

Your registered title shows the general boundaries and registered extent. Whilst not exact you should be able to get a good idea of whether it includes the parcel of land . 

Your neighbour’s title may help in some ways; the caution title is largely irrelevant if the land is within the part marked X; and the screenshot from MapSearch is simply an indication if what’s registered and the title plan matters most  
If you’ve moved the fence to include land you don’t have title to and/or the developer is saying they own it then I’d suggest either asking them to prove it; getting a copy of their title plan; and asking a surveyor to report on who owns what based on the 2 title plans (not the caution title ir MapSearch screenshot) 

Thanks very much for your response.  I do plan to get the title plan of the large area of land the housing developer purchased as it will be interesting to see the crossover of this land.

Without seeing it as yet I can only assume they have taken all the land to my original boundary but if that is the case the title deeds of my neighbour and myself would then need to be explained as they do appear to be different.

kensiko

A further question which hopefully will be easy to answer if I may.
Is the correct form to request the title plan that I cannot download OC1? 

Thanks once again.

sevenhills

kensiko said:

The final image (sorry for all the pictures but I thought they might help) shows a 'live view' from early March this year which a solicitor looked up for me.  This shows all the land described above:

Did you get legal advice about the land ownership from the solicitor?

kensiko

sevenhills said:

kensiko said:

The final image (sorry for all the pictures but I thought they might help) shows a 'live view' from early March this year which a solicitor looked up for me.  This shows all the land described above:

Did you get legal advice about the land ownership from the solicitor?

I did yes, I received half an hours free consultation in which I gave all the relevant title deeds to them.
They then did this search and gave me a copy.  There was no actual advice given but they seemed to be in agreement that these deeds and the mapsearch did show an extra piece of land.

A surveyor would be needed I think to get more concrete legal advice but they were of the opinion to go ahead with the fence movement.