UPDATE - Symbio - email not received

rp1974

Put simply if it's to your advantage to have not recieved an email,your likely to refute any knowledge of that being the case wether you did or didn't recieve it.

Part of an email,one of several regarding tariff information from Symbio : We understand that you had previously received an email with an end date printed on our Variable Tariff,this was due to a technical glitch.
We apologise for the confusion that this may have caused.
The Variable Tariff does not have a fixed end date hence the tariff type is called variable.

By that and on the three occasions I've had at least the required 30 days notice of variable tariff ending,at least a couple of emails stating exactly that with a suggested (nonsensical) renewal quote,though the last change email for 01/05/2021 didn't have a functional renewal link,another convenient and remarkably common Symbio "technical glitch" no doubt.

brewerdave

CRISPIANNE3 said:

lisyloo said:

niktheguru said:

lisyloo said:

Continuing to make informed tariff and consumption choices

31F.3 The licensee must ensure that each Domestic Customer is provided with information, services and/or tools in a Form and at a frequency sufficient to enable that Domestic Customer to:

(a) understand the key features of their Tariff, including any charges, fees or payments; and

(b) make informed choices in when, and how much, [electricity/gas] that Domestic Customer consumes, including prompting that Domestic Customer to consider ways to be more efficient and/or flexible in how and when that Domestic Customer consumes [electricity/gas]

How does the above "ofgem quote" suggest that any provider has to give you multiple reminders? the "frequency" remark doesn't necessarily mean they have to send you multiple reminders. They could argue they gave you a months notice.
Of course you can complain because you don't think you were given any notice before the variable rate changed, but i wouldn't pin it all on not getting multiple reminders.
When your bank account changes their interest rates, do they send you multiple letters, or just one saying in x months the rate is changing and here are your options?

Do you think they are complying by putting

end date: NA

on the bills?

WRT bank id expect to be able to find out what rate I was on and when it was ending. That doesn’t seem to be an option with Symbio especially if the OMIT from their bills. I’d that fair for them to redact the information?

This is what is shown on my account
Tariff Plan

Low Fair and Green 15M Fixed SE02 v1

Tariff Start Date

08-Dec-2020

Tariff End Date 

31-Mar-2022

Exit fee 

£ 30.00

Standing Charges (VAT Exclusive)

19.048 p per day

Flat Rate (VAT Exclusive)

10.246 p per kWh

I have no idea HOW they can offer that as a fix til next March - miles cheaper than the "opposition" which suggests that they are trading at a big loss (to me anyway!!

Swipe

brewerdave said:

CRISPIANNE3 said:

lisyloo said:

niktheguru said:

lisyloo said:

Continuing to make informed tariff and consumption choices

31F.3 The licensee must ensure that each Domestic Customer is provided with information, services and/or tools in a Form and at a frequency sufficient to enable that Domestic Customer to:

(a) understand the key features of their Tariff, including any charges, fees or payments; and

(b) make informed choices in when, and how much, [electricity/gas] that Domestic Customer consumes, including prompting that Domestic Customer to consider ways to be more efficient and/or flexible in how and when that Domestic Customer consumes [electricity/gas]

How does the above "ofgem quote" suggest that any provider has to give you multiple reminders? the "frequency" remark doesn't necessarily mean they have to send you multiple reminders. They could argue they gave you a months notice.
Of course you can complain because you don't think you were given any notice before the variable rate changed, but i wouldn't pin it all on not getting multiple reminders.
When your bank account changes their interest rates, do they send you multiple letters, or just one saying in x months the rate is changing and here are your options?

Do you think they are complying by putting

end date: NA

on the bills?

WRT bank id expect to be able to find out what rate I was on and when it was ending. That doesn’t seem to be an option with Symbio especially if the OMIT from their bills. I’d that fair for them to redact the information?

This is what is shown on my account
Tariff Plan

Low Fair and Green 15M Fixed SE02 v1

Tariff Start Date

08-Dec-2020

Tariff End Date 

31-Mar-2022

Exit fee 

£ 30.00

Standing Charges (VAT Exclusive)

19.048 p per day

Flat Rate (VAT Exclusive)

10.246 p per kWh

I have no idea HOW they can offer that as a fix til next March - miles cheaper than the "opposition" which suggests that they are trading at a big loss (to me anyway!!

I'm on the same until the end of December

lisyloo

niktheguru said:

Are you on a fixed rate deal or a variable rate deal? You've already stated you chose a variable rate tariff.
If you are on a fixed rate deal then there should be an end date on your bill.
If you are on a variable rate deal then there will be no end date, because thats the whole point, its variable, so it can change at any point, but they should give you notice for when its about to change so you can decide to switch supplier, change tariff or stick with what its changing to.
No supplier will give you an end date on a variable tariff. If you had an end date it would be a FIXED TARIFF!

A reminder is for when people are on fixed rate deals and they should be "reminded" that the deal is about to end on the date they agreed, at that point they can choose another fixed deal, go on a variable rate deal, or by default go to a standard rate.

Did symbio put you on their standard rate deal? or did they put you on a different variable rate renewal deal?

You can fight this argument for however long you want, but the bottom line is essentially whether they sent you the notice of a change of tariff or not. The sensible customer service thing would have been for symbio to just give you the month on your previous tariff and change your tariff instantly to whatever you wanted. It doesn't help they're dragging their heels. All this though over £2-3. Surely the ombudsman has better things to do (obviously not)

It’s was a variable rate called Low Fair and Green Variable SE02 v13.
no I did not receive any notice.
not sure where £2-£3 comes from???  

I reckon about £30. Not the end of the world for me but yes I think it’s worth arguing over as I think it’s unfair without any notice.
Ther new tariff is called Fair and Green Variable Renewal B1.4. Not sure if it’s their standard but it’s expensive.
You seem insistent (bold, caps) that variable tariffs have no end date whereas Symbio say this did have an expiry date of 3 months but never told me that, not on my bills or my initial contract.
you also seem insistent that reminders are for fixed tariffs whereas the lost email is tittled
“ Reminder for Variable Tariff change”.
so they claim they were reminding me about the 3 months deadline that they never told me about.
I am listening and taking it all on board but still can’t see how this is fair.
I hope the ombudsman does look at my bills and contracts to see what I was NOT told.
I believe the reminder was intended to be a reminder but that they did not communicate the expiry date to beforehand.

lisyloo

rp1974 said:

Put simply if it's to your advantage to have not recieved an email,your likely to refute any knowledge of that being the case wether you did or didn't recieve it.

Part of an email,one of several regarding tariff information from Symbio : We understand that you had previously received an email with an end date printed on our Variable Tariff,this was due to a technical glitch.
We apologise for the confusion that this may have caused.
The Variable Tariff does not have a fixed end date hence the tariff type is called variable.

By that and on the three occasions I've had at least the required 30 days notice of variable tariff ending,at least a couple of emails stating exactly that with a suggested (nonsensical) renewal quote,though the last change email for 01/05/2021 didn't have a functional renewal link,another convenient and remarkably common Symbio "technical glitch" no doubt.

Objectively speaking I agree, I could be lying I didn’t receive the email and have no proof.
I am not expecting to win on that account.
but it was a “reminder” so their own comms implies I should already have been informed.
it was not a notice of tarrif change but a reminder. 

We will have to see how the ombudsman feels about no notice of tarrif change and one reminder.
my interpretation of the ofgem rules is that this isn’t sufficient comms to enable the customer to be clear on their tarrif (end date) when it isn’t on the bills, available online or on the contract.

niktheguru

You dont come on a forum to have everyone just agree with you do you?
I understand the point you're trying to make, I just don't agree with it. If you're on a variable rate tariff you shouldn't be expected to be informed of a change of tariff several times. Once is enough, just like if you're going to have an interest rate change on a bank account.

You will probably win your case because as we all know symbio are not the best with accuracy or competence. So by saying "reminder" on their email they've probably shot themselves in the foot. They may have indeed also forgotten to email this to you and then tried to cover their backs. However there is also the possibility that you've mistakenly deleted it or its been put in spam by your email server and hence missed
 The answer to that is we will never know.....but we haven't had anyone else post that the same thing has happened to them. (So it isn't clear cut.....though I'm not suggesting you're lying either!!)

If I was in your position I too would probably argue with them about not being informed and the cost implication of one month at a higher tariff which could have been avoided, however I wouldn't personally go down the "no end date, no multiple reminders, ofgem rules route" 

I wish you luck in your complaint. From the sounds of the other thread looks like they may not be offering the better rates to existing customers. Don't know if you've managed to change it. Otherwise it might be switch out to a better company time.

lisyloo

Of course not, the criticism is valuable and my complaint will be much improved as a result :-)

Do you agree they should have told me the intended date of the short term tarrif on my contract and bills if it was indeed 3 months from the start?

I do check my spam folder so if it had been put there I should have found it but as you say it’s not impossible I made a mistake just unlikely.

personally I’m not comfortable with a single email being deemed served if there is no option for checking anything but I may be out of line with contract legislation on that. 

am I right in saying I can’t do anything on the portal except submit meter readings?

niktheguru

lisyloo said:

Of course not, the criticism is valuable and my complaint will be much improved as a result :-)

Do you agree they should have told me the intended date of the short term tarrif on my contract and bills if it was indeed 3 months from the start?

I do check my spam folder so if it had been put there I should have found it but as you say it’s not impossible I made a mistake just unlikely.

personally I’m not comfortable with a single email being deemed served if there is no option for checking anything but I may be out of line with contract legislation on that. 

am I right in saying I can’t do anything on the portal except submit meter readings?

If you look at symbio terms and conditions point 7.1 suggests they should be giving you 30 days notice of a change of rate of a variable tariff, so no you shouldn’t have been given 3 months notice and you can’t insist on that.

The bill doesn’t need to suggest an end date or change date, as you are on a variable contract. It would change when the rate changes, so on the bill when you are on the new rate. Symbio do do it differently (and stupidly) by putting people on a new variable rate contract rather than keeping it the same and just changing the prices. I’ve not personally seen any other company list and end date for a variable tariff on the bill.

The contract itself doesn’t need to give you an end date because it is variable, they can change it at anytime, that’s the whole nature of a variable rate, otherwise it would be a fixed rate. This is why variable rates are generally slightly cheaper.

what symbio needed to do was inform you via email or post of a change in tariff/rate or movement to new variable rate tariff and that it was going to change on a certain date. That is what the email you were supposedly sent was for. That is what I agree you should have been sent, and what I have said all along is the important notification here. The fact you didn’t get it is the problem…….the rest of your argument I don’t agree with as stated above!

rp1974

I had no intention of saying you were lying,only meant to point out that it's how it could appear.I apologise if that's how that sounded,it wasn't meant to.

Will be interesting what the Ombudsman says regarding one reminder being sufficient or insufficient,and any difference between the necessary information for fixed and variable tariffs.Symbios not exactly clear and concise information wise.

No end date has been on any of my three variables with Symbio,not on my bills,online logged into the portal dashboard,or contract,there was a start date though.
A start and an end date was on my fixed tariff on my bills,online logged in to the portal dashboard,and contract.

Again hope the Ombudsman result provides some clarity.

lisyloo

rp1974 said:

I had no intention of saying you were lying,only meant to point out that it's how it could appear.I apologise if that's how that sounded,it wasn't meant to.

Will be interesting what the Ombudsman says regarding one reminder being sufficient or insufficient,and any difference between the necessary information for fixed and variable tariffs.Symbios not exactly clear and concise information wise.

No end date has been on any of my three variables with Symbio,not on my bills,online logged into the portal dashboard,or contract,there was a start date though.
A start and an end date was on my fixed tariff on my bills,online logged in to the portal dashboard,and contract.

Again hope the Ombudsman result provides some clarity.

Never thought you were saying I was lying. I understand it’s just my word and I am not relying on the lost email argument.

Interesting about portal/dashboard. I am not getting reset password emails so can’t use it.