UPDATE - Symbio - email not received

rp1974

lisyloo said:
I’d say loads of people do outside of this community.

That's unfortunate,more fool them then.
Harsh but true,no doubt the same folk that dont bother reading meters,doing comparisons,reading agreements of any kind.
Not much truck from me when such folk come a cropper,tbh.

CRISPIANNE3

lisyloo said:

Hi would appreciate some advice.
Symbio has been fine for 3 months, then went onto expensive tarriff.
Called and they say I was advised and they sent email about change of tarriff after 3 months.
they have forwarded the email but I am certain I never received it (I’m a control freak with finances).
do they have form on this? Or is it just unlucky?
Do I just have to suck it up as there is no way I can prove they didn’t send the email?
they won’t budge the tarriff for June.
is it just tough if you don’t receive an email?
I have asked nicely 

In the case of Symbio you have to be proactive and not leave them to send any form of communication. On the bill it will clearly show when the present tariff expires. Then it is up to all of us to find the best deal ourselves. I am on a very good deal it's their estimating that spoils it.  However I have requested to go on a fix direct debit each month. 

rp1974

Symbio,dont know about other suppliers dont state variable tariffs end dates on their bills,find with Symbio the variable tariffs last for a quarter with thirty days of that being the required notice of an increase,sorry an "adjustment".

lisyloo

CRISPIANNE3 said:

lisyloo said:

Hi would appreciate some advice.
Symbio has been fine for 3 months, then went onto expensive tarriff.
Called and they say I was advised and they sent email about change of tarriff after 3 months.
they have forwarded the email but I am certain I never received it (I’m a control freak with finances).
do they have form on this? Or is it just unlucky?
Do I just have to suck it up as there is no way I can prove they didn’t send the email?
they won’t budge the tarriff for June.
is it just tough if you don’t receive an email?
I have asked nicely 

In the case of Symbio you have to be proactive and not leave them to send any form of communication. On the bill it will clearly show when the present tariff expires. Then it is up to all of us to find the best deal ourselves. I am on a very good deal it's their estimating that spoils it.  However I have requested to go on a fix direct debit each month. 

I agree, but it didn’t say. Here’s the extract from my bill

Name: Low Fair and Green Variable SE02 v13
Paying By: Direct Debit

Tariff Ends: NA

Exit Fee: £ 0

my initial question again remains.
if they have “evidence” that an email was sent is it tough?
e.g.
From: customerservices@symbioenergy.co.uk <customerservices@symbioenergy.co.uk>
Sent: 30 April 2021 02:37 PM
To: <correct email address here>
Subject: Reminder for Variable Tariff change

I.e. is a single reminder from them sufficient communication when bill doesn’t give an end date?
My own research indicates not but I thought I’d consult you guys. Here’s what ofgem say

Continuing to make informed tariff and consumption choices

31F.3 The licensee must ensure that each Domestic Customer is provided with information, services and/or tools in a Form and at a frequency sufficient to enable that Domestic Customer to:

(a) understand the key features of their Tariff, including any charges, fees or payments; and

(b) make informed choices in when, and how much, [electricity/gas] that Domestic Customer consumes, including prompting that Domestic Customer to consider ways to be more efficient and/or flexible in how and when that Domestic Customer consumes [electricity/gas]

lisyloo

Formal compliant put in on the basis that NO indication on bills and single reminder email is insufficient under ofgems standards.

niktheguru

Its a tricky one as its essentially your word against theirs. Its a bit like what if royal mail loses a letter from them stating a change in tariff, is it their fault or your fault? Its neither. Unfortunately we'll never know if they actually sent it or there was a fault and they didn't send it, or if your email server rejected it, or you by accident deleted it or it was put in your spam folder and since gone (spam folders generally delete after 30 days)

I take it your latest bill has the "newer" more expensive rate on it, and thats when you noticed it. You could try and argue it with them and ask them to honour the old rate for an extra month, but knowing symbio doubt they'd comply, I guess it depends on the difference in price it has made, if its a couple of quid, you prob would have better things to do than to fight for this, if its a significant sum then it may be worth the effort.

I take it you've changed to a cheaper one now?
If you feel aggrieved by symbio then talk with your feet and leave to another provider.

rp1974

Do any suppliers state end dates for variable tariffs,and is there any obligation for them to do so?.
Really a case of Symbio needing to prove that the email was sent and the OP needing to prove that it wasn't.
Looking for something else and found this in the current terms and conditions:

Renewal

Q: I want to renew my contract with Symbio Energy.

A: If you are at the end of your contractual period on a fixed contract, we will communicate with you via email to inform you of the renewal tariff that you will be placed upon. Unlike our competitors, who notify the customer only once, we send you three renewal reminders in the last 6 weeks of the term if you are on a fixed tariff contract or 4 weeks if you are on a variable tariff contract

The e-mail clearly explains the process of selecting the tariff in case you wish to renew the contract with us. You need to click on the embedded link which will allow you to confirm the renewal tariff or select a tariff of your choice by visiting our website.

If you have chosen a variable tariff, the price of variable tariffs changes to reflect the wholesale price of energy. The Variable tariffs will not have a fixed duration and the tariff price would go up and reflect the market prices. We will inform you via email about the increase in price and provide you with an opportunity to choose another tariff from our website if you wish.

Going by that then we are talking about having been sent three,not one emails in the space of four weeks,none of which have been received.Possibly reading too much into it,that suggests that suppliers are obliged to contact you once,whereas Symbio claim to do it three times.Then again Symbio claim and counter claim lots of things.

Good luck with your complaint.

lisyloo

niktheguru said:

Its a tricky one as its essentially your word against theirs. Its a bit like what if royal mail loses a letter from them stating a change in tariff, is it their fault or your fault? Its neither. Unfortunately we'll never know if they actually sent it or there was a fault and they didn't send it, or if your email server rejected it, or you by accident deleted it or it was put in your spam folder and since gone (spam folders generally delete after 30 days)

I take it your latest bill has the "newer" more expensive rate on it, and thats when you noticed it. You could try and argue it with them and ask them to honour the old rate for an extra month, but knowing symbio doubt they'd comply, I guess it depends on the difference in price it has made, if its a couple of quid, you prob would have better things to do than to fight for this, if its a significant sum then it may be worth the effort.

I take it you've changed to a cheaper one now?
If you feel aggrieved by symbio then talk with your feet and leave to another provider.

No - the basis of the complaint is not that the email was lost. It’s that one email reminder is insufficient (see quote from ofgem).

lisyloo

rp1974 said:

Do any suppliers state end dates for variable tariffs,and is there any obligation for them to do so?.
Really a case of Symbio needing to prove that the email was sent and the OP needing to prove that it wasn't.
Looking for something else and found this in the current terms and conditions:

Renewal

Q: I want to renew my contract with Symbio Energy.

A: If you are at the end of your contractual period on a fixed contract, we will communicate with you via email to inform you of the renewal tariff that you will be placed upon. Unlike our competitors, who notify the customer only once, we send you three renewal reminders in the last 6 weeks of the term if you are on a fixed tariff contract or 4 weeks if you are on a variable tariff contract

The e-mail clearly explains the process of selecting the tariff in case you wish to renew the contract with us. You need to click on the embedded link which will allow you to confirm the renewal tariff or select a tariff of your choice by visiting our website.

If you have chosen a variable tariff, the price of variable tariffs changes to reflect the wholesale price of energy. The Variable tariffs will not have a fixed duration and the tariff price would go up and reflect the market prices. We will inform you via email about the increase in price and provide you with an opportunity to choose another tariff from our website if you wish.

Going by that then we are talking about having been sent three,not one emails in the space of four weeks,none of which have been received.Possibly reading too much into it,that suggests that suppliers are obliged to contact you once,whereas Symbio claim to do it three times.Then again Symbio claim and counter claim lots of things.

Good luck with your complaint.

I’m not following where you got three emails for a variable tariff.
so far I’ve missed one reminder, that’s all.
surely the clue is In the name - there should be something before a reminder otherwise it’s not a reminder is it?

anyways up to Symbio/ombudsman now.
im sure they would have ruled on this before, can’t be the first time can it?

niktheguru

lisyloo said:

Continuing to make informed tariff and consumption choices

31F.3 The licensee must ensure that each Domestic Customer is provided with information, services and/or tools in a Form and at a frequency sufficient to enable that Domestic Customer to:

(a) understand the key features of their Tariff, including any charges, fees or payments; and

(b) make informed choices in when, and how much, [electricity/gas] that Domestic Customer consumes, including prompting that Domestic Customer to consider ways to be more efficient and/or flexible in how and when that Domestic Customer consumes [electricity/gas]

How does the above "ofgem quote" suggest that any provider has to give you multiple reminders? the "frequency" remark doesn't necessarily mean they have to send you multiple reminders. They could argue they gave you a months notice.
Of course you can complain because you don't think you were given any notice before the variable rate changed, but i wouldn't pin it all on not getting multiple reminders.
When your bank account changes their interest rates, do they send you multiple letters, or just one saying in x months the rate is changing and here are your options?