MSE News: Portugal axed from travel 'green list' after traffic light scheme review - your rights

epm-84

elsien said:

There is not an outright prohibition on travel, just a recommendation

True but if the FCDO advise against non-essential travel to a country or region then most insurance policies don't cover you if you go anyway and if you already have insurance in place you might need to buy another policy to be covered.

Since pre-pandemic the government has advised against travel to places like Syria, Iran, Gaza and parts of Turkey, the difference is now the government advise against travel to places people actually do want to go to.

epm-84

Butts said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Anyone booking holidays abroad at the moment is frankly bonkers while the situation is so fluid. 

No great loss really, the situation will chop and change lots before ‘normality’ is restored

Just call me "Bonkers Butts "
Provided it's with the right operator to the right destination there is no risk involved and bargains to be had.

Many people won't have the time or energy to play holiday booking bingo, even if it's only with companies who will refund you if the FCDO advise against travel.

Butts

epm-84 said:

Butts said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Anyone booking holidays abroad at the moment is frankly bonkers while the situation is so fluid. 

No great loss really, the situation will chop and change lots before ‘normality’ is restored

Just call me "Bonkers Butts "
Provided it's with the right operator to the right destination there is no risk involved and bargains to be had.

Many people won't have the time or energy to play holiday booking bingo, even if it's only with companies who will refund you if the FCDO advise against travel.

Good, all the more available for those of us who do !!

cubegame

Butts said:

cubegame said:

Butts said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Anyone booking holidays abroad at the moment is frankly bonkers while the situation is so fluid. 

No great loss really, the situation will chop and change lots before ‘normality’ is restored

Just call me "Bonkers Butts "
Provided it's with the right operator to the right destination there is no risk involved and bargains to be had.

Same as last year really, albeit with some unnecessary and expensive intrusive medical tests and too many delays on returning to the UK.

Start "local" (CTA) and work your way outwards as restrictions will hopefully ease over the course of the year.
No tests or queues so far - Newcastle and Belfast.

Queues were silly at Bristol last summer when we returned from Portugal a couple of times. That was last July/August when they weren't really doing any checks (apart from a cursory glance at a phone to see if you'd bothered to fill the arrival form out) so I'm sure with all the additional testing rubbish the system will be in absolute chaos IF the government do ever add more green list countries. I suspect they know how pathetically inadequate the border force are which is why there will be no green list countries.

Grumpy_chap

gordon_harris said:

My problem with the hotel quarantine is it's basically a barrier to poor people whereas rich people can easily afford it. rich people can do what they like because the cost of the hotel means nothing to them.

I don't necessarily agree - it is not as simple as that assessment.  While the £££ impact may not be as significant for the rich, the time-cost impact may be so.

Marty06

 I think we should be prioritising getting the UK fully open and operating normally internally, before we worry too much about international travel being "back to normal", especially as encouraging people to spend within the UK boosts the UK economy, where as tourism means that money goes abroad.

Doesn't tourism also mean foreign money comes to the UK? The UK being "back to normal" includes a large tourist, hospitality and leisure industry that is used by foreign visitors.

MattMattMattUK

Marty06 said:

 I think we should be prioritising getting the UK fully open and operating normally internally, before we worry too much about international travel being "back to normal", especially as encouraging people to spend within the UK boosts the UK economy, where as tourism means that money goes abroad.

Doesn't tourism also mean foreign money comes to the UK? The UK being "back to normal" includes a large tourist, hospitality and leisure industry that is used by foreign visitors.

The UK has a net deficit in tourism of £34 billion per year (Brits going abroad spend more than foreigners coming to the UK spend), so keeping people here in the UK and spending money would be a net benefit to the country. You also have to factor in the risk of additional closures and restrictions on the UK holiday, tourism and leisure sectors as well as the wider economy. I am not against holidays in general, indeed I had to cancel last years and this years (both booked pre-Covid) and would like to be able to go, but on balance the economic risks of a variant, at least for the moment do not make sense in allowing wholesale international travel and in the absence of quarantine on return. 

cubegame

g normally internally, before we worry too much about international travel being "back to normal", especially as encouraging people to spend within the UK boosts the UK economy, where as tourism means that money goes abroad.

Doesn't tourism also mean foreign money comes to the UK? The UK being "back to normal" includes a large tourist, hospitality and leisure industry that is used by foreign visitors.

The UK has a net deficit in tourism of £34 billion per year (Brits going abroad spend more than foreigners coming to the UK spend), so keeping people here in the UK and spending money would be a net benefit to the country. You also have to factor in the risk of additional closures and restrictions on the UK holiday, tourism and leisure sectors as well as the wider economy. I am not against holidays in general, indeed I had to cancel last years and this years (both booked pre-Covid) and would like to be able to go, but on balance the economic risks of a variant, at least for the moment do not make sense in allowing wholesale international travel and in the absence of quarantine on return. 

The problem with this opinion and attitude is that you don't realise that you will have to accept this as the status quo forever more. Even the goverment scientists have advised COVID will be endemic.

epm-84

MattMattMattUK said:

cubegame said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cubegame said:

MattMattMattUK said:

cubegame said:

This is why the government needs to go. Making completely irrational decisions without evidence or reasoning is not what the UK needs from any leaders at any time, let along now!

If the government were making rational decisions there would be no green or amber list or hotel quarantine. The current increase is almost entirely due to the Indian variant, but it's not really relevant in a highly vaccinated country with practically NO unvaccinated vulnerable people.

Fixed that for you.

No you did not, you added in your biases. 

Which are more rational than yours.

As such if the restrictions were in place at the correctly the Indian variant should have never entered general circulation within the UK. 

Although, of course travel to India was illegal except for exempt purposes at the time the variant was found.  The problem was the government was slow to move India to hotel quarantine, according to some reports that was because Boris thought it would harm his chance of a post-Brexit trade deal with India but whatever the reason was the government got it wrong.  It now seems because of previous mistakes they are now being over cautious. 

MattMattMattUK

cubegame said:

g normally internally, before we worry too much about international travel being "back to normal", especially as encouraging people to spend within the UK boosts the UK economy, where as tourism means that money goes abroad.

Doesn't tourism also mean foreign money comes to the UK? The UK being "back to normal" includes a large tourist, hospitality and leisure industry that is used by foreign visitors.

The UK has a net deficit in tourism of £34 billion per year (Brits going abroad spend more than foreigners coming to the UK spend), so keeping people here in the UK and spending money would be a net benefit to the country. You also have to factor in the risk of additional closures and restrictions on the UK holiday, tourism and leisure sectors as well as the wider economy. I am not against holidays in general, indeed I had to cancel last years and this years (both booked pre-Covid) and would like to be able to go, but on balance the economic risks of a variant, at least for the moment do not make sense in allowing wholesale international travel and in the absence of quarantine on return. 

The problem with this opinion and attitude is that you don't realise that you will have to accept this as the status quo forever more. Even the goverment scientists have advised COVID will be endemic.

Not really, I think next year, or even later this year would be perfectly reasonable for a resumption of quarantine free international travel. Variants (barring a full vaccine escape variant, which is highly unlikely based on current understanding) only present a real issue whilst a significant proportion of the population remain either unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated. As full vaccination is accepted as around three weeks after the final dose (either second dose for most, or after the single dose for Johnson & Johnson), then that should be the goal we are aiming for. Most of the over 50s should have had both doses by late June, with all adults on a first dose by the end of July and a second dose by the end of September.

Taking that information into account it would make sense to allow the resumption of quarantine free international travel in Q4. That is something that most virologists seem to agree with, based on patterns of transmission, variants and risks to those infected.