Is this Discriminatory?

elsien

Can you not go back to them and ask for the remainder of the 12 weeks you didn't get first time round, rather than applying for a new offer. 

MattMattMattUK

Aylesbury_Duck said:

unholyangel said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

It's positive action, as I understand it.  The Equality Act allows them to discriminate if it helps people with a protected characteristic (in this case, ethnicity) if those people are:

• at a disadvantage
• have particular needs
• are under-represented in an activity or type of work

In this case, I infer it's the first and second criteria they're using here, presumably as part of the targeted response to getting people from those ethnic groups fitter and better prepared for coronavirus or other respiratory illnesses.

In my book, that makes their criteria discriminatory, but lawful and sensible.

I don't think they are relying on the first two. At least, I don't see any way that they're disadvantaged in fitness activities by their protected characteristic or that they have particular fitness needs different from anyone without that characteristic. 

Nor do I think "black or minority ethnic group" would hold up. Because that covers every other ethnicity apart from caucasian/white (at least within the UK). While some ethnicities may be more at risk with a BMI of 25+ than a white person with a BMI of 25+, not all of them are. Therefore exemption is not proportionate as required by s158 of the equality act (which determines when positive action can be used in circumstances outside of recruitment/employment). 

But really, it would probably just lead to the gym withdrawing the offer rather than offering it to everyone. 


If OP has a high BMI though, they may want to speak to their doctor. Not sure if it's just Scotland but I know a friend who was referred to a gym by their GP and got a cheaper gym price as a result. However, I also don't know if there is a criteria for your doctor doing this (ie if BMI has to be over a certain value or whether it would just be beneficial to their health because they need to lose weight), but it can't hurt to ask. 

I suspect they are, but as you go on to explain, they may be doing so without full understanding of whether it is technically lawful, making the same mistaken assumption I made.

The equalities legislation is a real mess in many ways, it is well intentioned, but has plenty of flaws, especially in the way that it allows discrimination in favour of some groups, but not in favour of other groups, which often leads to a general feeling of unfairness.

If you lump all BAME together then the health risks for many people in the BAME group with a BMI of 25 are the same for white people at 30, but that ignores factors that the variance between white people is as wide as the variance between white people, the BAME as a whole and the variances within the BAME group itself. The risks associated with T2 diabetes and heart disease etc. are not the same across all white population, or even white European populations and whilst higher in black populations are largely linked to diet and (lack of) exercise, rather than any specific factor related to them being ethnically black. Variance within other ethnic minority populations can be all over the place, for instance the T2 diabetes in people of Japanese decent is negligible when compared to white or black populations, it is slightly higher in ethnically Han Chinese and significantly higher in Indian ethnic groups, but much of that is related to diet and obesity. 

JamoLew

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

MattMattMattUK

JamoLew said:

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

They could be in the minority, but the way the law is written they can not be a minority. 

JamoLew

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

They could be in the minority, but the way the law is written they can not be a minority. 

Why not - not trying to be argumentative - I am genuinely interested.

In my workplace I am one of 3 males in a workforce of 100+ - does that make me in that respect a minority ?

Would it not be dependent on the boundaries of the sample ?

MattMattMattUK

JamoLew said:

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

They could be in the minority, but the way the law is written they can not be a minority. 

I think that's semantics - In my workplace I am most definitely a minority (male)

Kind of, but the way the law is written in the UK, a white British national can never be an ethnic minority.

JamoLew said:
Taking a sample of 100 staff there would be 3 of us (male) - does that not make me and my 2 fellow males a minority in that respect ?

I am not trying to argue the rationality of it, as with much legislation it is flawed, you can be in the minority, both factually and statistically, but you can not be a minority, that status is reserved in racial terms for people who are not white British. 

JamoLew said:

Would it not be dependent on the boundaries of the sample ?

Not according to the law no, which is yet another example of why the law is an equus.

Aylesbury_Duck

JamoLew said:

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

They could be in the minority, but the way the law is written they can not be a minority. 

Why not - not trying to be argumentative - I am genuinely interested.

In my workplace I am one of 3 males in a workforce of 100+ - does that make me in that respect a minority ?

Would it not be dependent on the boundaries of the sample ?

Absolutely, and I don't know what the solution is, because going down to that sort of detail in every case like the one OP has described would be administratively difficult and result in service providers just abandoning positive action attempts altogether.  Fine for those that would like the UK to be some sort of preserved-in-resin 1950s land, but not for those that would prefer the country to move forwards, not backwards.

JamoLew

Cheers -@MattMattMattUK apologies as well - I did slightly edit my post to be a touch more coherent  (hopefully)

user1977

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

They could be in the minority, but the way the law is written they can not be a minority. 

I think that's semantics - In my workplace I am most definitely a minority (male)

Kind of, but the way the law is written in the UK, a white British national can never be an ethnic minority.

JamoLew said:
Taking a sample of 100 staff there would be 3 of us (male) - does that not make me and my 2 fellow males a minority in that respect ?

I am not trying to argue the rationality of it, as with much legislation it is flawed, you can be in the minority, both factually and statistically, but you can not be a minority, that status is reserved in racial terms for people who are not white British. 

JamoLew said:

Would it not be dependent on the boundaries of the sample ?

Not according to the law no, which is yet another example of why the law is an equus.

Can you point us towards the relevant legal provisions you're talking about here? The protected characteristics in the Equality Act are generally neutral (the word "minority" doesn't even feature in the Act).

Manxman_in_exile

user1977 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

MattMattMattUK said:

JamoLew said:

White British could be classed as a minority ethnic group in some parts/towns/cities of Britain

They could be in the minority, but the way the law is written they can not be a minority. 

I think that's semantics - In my workplace I am most definitely a minority (male)

Kind of, but the way the law is written in the UK, a white British national can never be an ethnic minority.

JamoLew said:
Taking a sample of 100 staff there would be 3 of us (male) - does that not make me and my 2 fellow males a minority in that respect ?

I am not trying to argue the rationality of it, as with much legislation it is flawed, you can be in the minority, both factually and statistically, but you can not be a minority, that status is reserved in racial terms for people who are not white British. 

JamoLew said:

Would it not be dependent on the boundaries of the sample ?

Not according to the law no, which is yet another example of why the law is an equus.

Can you point us towards the relevant legal provisions you're talking about here? The protected characteristics in the Equality Act are generally neutral (the word "minority" doesn't even feature in the Act).

Thank you for asking the question I was wanting to ask! 

I cannot for the life of me understand what the comments "Kind of, but the way the law is written in the UK, a white British national can never be an ethnic minority" and "... you can be in the minority, both factually and statistically, but you can not be a minority, that status is reserved in racial terms for people who are not white British" actually mean.

I used to work in the NHS (like I think JamoLew still does) and before I retired a reasonably significant part of my work was involved in workforce planning (no sniggering please) and monitoring workforce equality and diversity (although I prefer inclusivity).  But apparently I knew nothing about the subject at all  (I said no sniggering!) as I don't understand what a minority is.

(And to answer the OP's question, I think it is discriminatory... )