Going electric or hybrid

tommyedinburgh

I was reading up on the Toyota Prius + at the weekend, we prefer 7 seater vehicles. I noticed that most were self-charging, however there are some plug-in ones for sale. The self-charging seem to have an electric range of around 15 miles max and the plug-in around 33 miles.

The plug-in caught my attention.

DrEskimo

tommyedinburgh said:

I was reading up on the Toyota Prius + at the weekend, we prefer 7 seater vehicles. I noticed that most were self-charging, however there are some plug-in ones for sale. The self-charging seem to have an electric range of around 15 miles max and the plug-in around 33 miles.

The plug-in caught my attention.

You can't use a self-charging hybrid in the same way as a plug-in hybrid. The self-charging hybrid will only run the car on the battery if it has charge (i.e. it's been charged whilst recouping energy from braking during a previous journey) and only under set conditions (low speed).

A plug-in hybrid on the other hand can be charged and run like a full EV, albeit with a much smaller battery. In terms of range, they will quote 30-odd miles but I understand that this will never be achieved. More realistically you are looking at around 10-15miles in the winter and 20-25 in the summer.

benbay001

I cant speak for other manufacturers, but my Auris uses the battery often and generally tries to keep the charge at about 75%, meaning that if you brake, or go downhill there is another capacity to regen, yet if you need the power, either because you're accelerating either lightly or hard or youre sat at traffic lights with the AC running then there is enough charge to not need the ICE motor.

As i said before, its ultimately all about making the most efficient use of the fuel you do burn.

BOWFER

benbay001 said:

My (new to me 2010 Auris) hybrid is basically a Prius in a frock. It gets 55 mpg no matter what type of driving i am doing, town of motorway. Try to get that from an equivalent conventional petrol and you simply wont.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/search.html suggest that a conventional petrol 1.6 Auris will achieve 37mpg average. Thats one massive fuel saving without the driver having to do anything different than they would with a normal petrol.

55mpg isn't that much more than a conventional petrol would get, if the 1.6 Auris is only getting 37mpg then it must be a really inefficient engine, I get more than that from a 200bhp 2.0 petrol.
The extra cost of the hybrid just isn't saved in fuel, so the only real advantages to it are city zone charges or BIK savings.

caprikid1

BOWFER said:

benbay001 said:

My (new to me 2010 Auris) hybrid is basically a Prius in a frock. It gets 55 mpg no matter what type of driving i am doing, town of motorway. Try to get that from an equivalent conventional petrol and you simply wont.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/search.html suggest that a conventional petrol 1.6 Auris will achieve 37mpg average. Thats one massive fuel saving without the driver having to do anything different than they would with a normal petrol.

55mpg isn't that much more than a conventional petrol would get, if the 1.6 Auris is only getting 37mpg then it must be a really inefficient engine, I get more than that from a 200bhp 2.0 petrol.
The extra cost of the hybrid just isn't saved in fuel, so the only real advantages to it are city zone charges or BIK savings.

You could get 55mpg out of a 70's mini I expect !

coffeehound

DrEskimo said:

A plug-in hybrid on the other hand can be charged and run like a full EV, albeit with a much smaller battery. In terms of range, they will quote 30-odd miles but I understand that this will never be achieved. More realistically you are looking at around 10-15miles in the winter and 20-25 in the summer.

I suppose plug-in gives the advantage of pre-warming the interior on the charger rather than depleting the battery range?

Grumpy_chap

BOWFER said:

benbay001 said:

My (new to me 2010 Auris) hybrid is basically a Prius in a frock. It gets 55 mpg no matter what type of driving i am doing, town of motorway. Try to get that from an equivalent conventional petrol and you simply wont.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/search.html suggest that a conventional petrol 1.6 Auris will achieve 37mpg average. Thats one massive fuel saving without the driver having to do anything different than they would with a normal petrol.

55mpg isn't that much more than a conventional petrol would get, if the 1.6 Auris is only getting 37mpg then it must be a really inefficient engine, I get more than that from a 200bhp 2.0 petrol.
The extra cost of the hybrid just isn't saved in fuel, so the only real advantages to it are city zone charges or BIK savings.

55mpg is good for a conventional petrol engine.
37 mpg is rather poor.

My 2014 Auris Hybrid did 44 - 45 mpg.  My 2007 Focus does 42 - 43 mpg.  Not a significant difference for all the extra cost and complexity of the hybrid.  The Auris was a company car, though, so BIK was attractive.  The Focus is far more fun to drive against the Auris being rather dull.  Another thing I never liked on the Auris was the very poor headlights.

BOWFER

DrEskimo said:

A plug-in hybrid on the other hand can be charged and run like a full EV, albeit with a much smaller battery. 

Not quite.
As I understand it, the Toyota can only do a max of 43.5 mph on the motor alone.
Other hybrids have similar top speed restrictions on the motor only.
So even though my commute is only 3.5 miles each way, about 1.55 miles of it is along a dual carriageway and 43.5mph would make me a danger and the petrol motor would have to become involved.
I think max acceleration is the same, you need the petrol motor to kick in.
No such worries with a full EV, just floor it.... :-:smile:

born_again

BOWFER said:

Other hybrids have similar top speed restrictions on the motor only.

Kia Niro HEV or PHEV does not.  Will happily run at 70MPH in EV mode

NaughtiusMaximus

BOWFER said:

Beware that if you buy a hybrid now, you may struggle to get rid of it again.

Complete nonsense, there will remain plenty of demand for non EVs for the foreseeable future, both HEV and ICE.