Octopus Tracker

Telegraph_Sam

masonic said:

At this time of the year getting a load of washing dry is the expensive part.

If I'm not pushed for time I suspend the damp clothes over a low energy dehumidifier.

I'm not convinced as to the extra benefit of a "long" wash except for really ingrained dirt. And I query the trade-off between temperature and wash cycle time. And whether these eco days it is really necessary to exterminate every last vestige of a stain - in just one heavy duty wash. Heresy to many to ask. Only to find too late that the load was "shifted" into the Saving Session .. You have to draw the washing line somewhere.

masonic

Telegraph_Sam said:

masonic said:

At this time of the year getting a load of washing dry is the expensive part.

If I'm not pushed for time I suspend the damp clothes over a low energy dehumidifier.

I'm not convinced as to the extra benefit of a "long" wash except for really ingrained dirt. And I query the trade-off between temperature and wash cycle time. And whether these eco days it is really necessary to exterminate every last vestige of a stain - in just one heavy duty wash. Heresy to many to ask. Only to find too late that the load was "shifted" into the Saving Session .. You have to draw the washing line somewhere.

Even the more energy efficient desiccant dehumidifiers are going to use several units of electricity to pull a litre or more of water vapour out of the air. But that is what I do when I can't hang outside.

I'm a fan of a 30C wash. I tend to run a full length cycle as the energy consumption isn't a great deal more than a 30 minute cycle. I don't use the "eco" wash that lasts for hours as that just seems like overkill.

MultiFuelBurner

Slinky said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Slinky said:

northernstar007 said:

i even know how many kw it uses per wash (sad) 800w lol

Blimey!  Mine uses 0.13kwh on a 30 degree 63minute wash, but then I do fill it with spare gas heated hot water from the hot tank, via a watering can.  We have spare hot water because Nest will only allow us to programme the hot water cycle for an hour or a half hour. We really need 40 minutes. I did used to juggle between an hour one day and half hour the next but OH said that was taking things too far when the shower ran tepid.

So what's the price of the hot water you pour in.

You may also be damaging your washing machine doing that.

12 litres of gas heated hot water at 6.78p per kwh. No idea, but can't be much. It's a 200 litre tank.

I've heard the argument before about damaging the machine, but I'm afraid it doesn't wash with me....  We each do what we like in our own homes.

We do of course do what we all like in our own homes but mentioning it on a money saving site without caveats must be done with a little caution especially when you almost mocked the the person you were replying to with "Blimey!" With their 800w of energy use for a load of washing

Anyway good pun 😜

QrizB

masonic said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

masonic said:

At this time of the year getting a load of washing dry is the expensive part.

If I'm not pushed for time I suspend the damp clothes over a low energy dehumidifier.

I'm not convinced as to the extra benefit of a "long" wash except for really ingrained dirt. And I query the trade-off between temperature and wash cycle time. And whether these eco days it is really necessary to exterminate every last vestige of a stain - in just one heavy duty wash. Heresy to many to ask. Only to find too late that the load was "shifted" into the Saving Session .. You have to draw the washing line somewhere.

Even the more energy efficient desiccant dehumidifiers ...

On the whole, desiccant dehumidifiers are less energy efficient than compressor (heat pump) ones are.
They are more effective dehumidifiers, but they use more electricity to do so.

Tarquinius

Hello

I'm new to this thread, and looking for some thoughts about Octopus Tracker.  I was not sure whether to start a new thread.   Please forgive me, but I haven't read through the 5000+ posts.   I'm sure my points must have been discussed already!

I'm on Octopus Tracker and so far have benefited hugely as the Tracker tariff has been way below the price cap.   But my (uneducated!) guess is that market prices may spike this winter so there will be times when I'll paying much more than the price cap   (if the pattern from last winter repeats).

I am wondering what factors to consider when deciding, at some future time, whether to stick with this tariff or not.   Obviously daily market rates are unpredictable,  so its impossible to forecast the Octopus tariff price.   

But what are the key issues to consider when trying to make a best guess as to whether to stick with the Tracker or switch out?    Under what circumstances would I better off making a decision to switch out of Tracker ?

Long term average - Tracker v Energy Price Cap rate
I am also keen to understand a bit more about how this tariff actually works, compared to the standard price cap rate.   My very basic understanding is that the energy price cap standard rate reflects a historic average of the market rate for energy  over a given period  (plus an allowance for their overheads).

If that is the case, then logically over the long term,  the  Tracker (market spot rate)  average should equal the price cap (as the price cap is simply a historic average of market rates over time).     Is my reasoning correct?

If this is the case, then it should not be possible to win (or lose) over time by choosing either the tracker or price cap, as it all would average out in the end.

I'd be grateful for any comments as to whether my reasoning is correct - or if not why ?

Thank you in advance !

masonic

QrizB said:

masonic said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

masonic said:

At this time of the year getting a load of washing dry is the expensive part.

If I'm not pushed for time I suspend the damp clothes over a low energy dehumidifier.

I'm not convinced as to the extra benefit of a "long" wash except for really ingrained dirt. And I query the trade-off between temperature and wash cycle time. And whether these eco days it is really necessary to exterminate every last vestige of a stain - in just one heavy duty wash. Heresy to many to ask. Only to find too late that the load was "shifted" into the Saving Session .. You have to draw the washing line somewhere.

Even the more energy efficient desiccant dehumidifiers ...

On the whole, desiccant dehumidifiers are less energy efficient than compressor (heat pump) ones are.
They are more effective dehumidifiers, but they use more electricity to do so.

I agree that desiccant dehumidifiers use more energy per hour (usually a little over 300 W vs a little under 200 W), and compressor ones are less effective (in my experience needing to be used for about 3x as long for the same moisure removal). The net result of that in my experience is a lower efficiency in L/kWh, with the compressor ones performing a lot worse than advertised, presumably due to the operating temperature being much lower than is optimal for them and resulting in them having to go through frequent defrosting cycles. I think at higher temperatures, rising through the 20s, the performance of the compressor one would improve and may well win over.

Spoonie_Turtle

Tarquinius said:

If this is the case, then it should not be possible to win (or lose) over time by choosing either the tracker or price cap, as it all would average out in the end.

I'd be grateful for any comments as to whether my reasoning is correct - or if not why ?

Thank you in advance !

Well IIRC, so far in 2023 Tracker electricity has not reached the cap except today.  If it has gone above at all, say in January or February, it was for a day here and there, I can't fully remember.

We have saved over £1000 compared with the SVT this year; it would take sustained very high prices this month to wipe that out.  Working with a rolling year isn't simple because when it did go above the cap last December we had the EPG which reduced the price we paid down to the SVT level.  October and November that wasn't needed though.

I don't know why that is, though.  Your theory sounds to me, as a layman, like it should be correct, but so far it's not holding up unless the December increase would have wiped out a person's savings.

Maybe someone else knows, I'm just grateful it's been cheaper than the SVT for the vast majority of the time.

Telegraph_Sam

masonic said:

QrizB said:

masonic said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

masonic said:

At this time of the year getting a load of washing dry is the expensive part.

If I'm not pushed for time I suspend the damp clothes over a low energy dehumidifier.

I'm not convinced as to the extra benefit of a "long" wash except for really ingrained dirt. And I query the trade-off between temperature and wash cycle time. And whether these eco days it is really necessary to exterminate every last vestige of a stain - in just one heavy duty wash. Heresy to many to ask. Only to find too late that the load was "shifted" into the Saving Session .. You have to draw the washing line somewhere.

Even the more energy efficient desiccant dehumidifiers ...

On the whole, desiccant dehumidifiers are less energy efficient than compressor (heat pump) ones are.
They are more effective dehumidifiers, but they use more electricity to do so.

I agree that desiccant dehumidifiers use more energy per hour (usually a little over 300 W vs a little under 200 W), and compressor ones are less effective (in my experience needing to be used for about 3x as long for the same moisure removal). The net result of that in my experience is a lower efficiency in L/kWh, with the compressor ones performing a lot worse than advertised, presumably due to the operating temperature being much lower than is optimal for them and resulting in them having to go through frequent defrosting cycles. I think at higher temperatures, rising through the 20s, the performance of the compressor one would improve and may well win over.

So, on net balance ..?

masonic

Telegraph_Sam said:

masonic said:

QrizB said:

masonic said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

masonic said:

At this time of the year getting a load of washing dry is the expensive part.

If I'm not pushed for time I suspend the damp clothes over a low energy dehumidifier.

I'm not convinced as to the extra benefit of a "long" wash except for really ingrained dirt. And I query the trade-off between temperature and wash cycle time. And whether these eco days it is really necessary to exterminate every last vestige of a stain - in just one heavy duty wash. Heresy to many to ask. Only to find too late that the load was "shifted" into the Saving Session .. You have to draw the washing line somewhere.

Even the more energy efficient desiccant dehumidifiers ...

On the whole, desiccant dehumidifiers are less energy efficient than compressor (heat pump) ones are.
They are more effective dehumidifiers, but they use more electricity to do so.

I agree that desiccant dehumidifiers use more energy per hour (usually a little over 300 W vs a little under 200 W), and compressor ones are less effective (in my experience needing to be used for about 3x as long for the same moisure removal). The net result of that in my experience is a lower efficiency in L/kWh, with the compressor ones performing a lot worse than advertised, presumably due to the operating temperature being much lower than is optimal for them and resulting in them having to go through frequent defrosting cycles. I think at higher temperatures, rising through the 20s, the performance of the compressor one would improve and may well win over.

So, on net balance ..?

On doing a bit more research, the efficiency of a compressor type dehumidifier is very dependent on the temperature in which it is operating, whereas the desiccant type is not. If you are shutting the laundry and dehumidifier in a room you don't normally occupy, and that room is on the cooler side, then desiccant would certainly be the way to go. If you tend to keep your whole home toasty warm, say 22 or more, then I expect the compressor would start to gain an edge, but would still be slower. Quoted efficiency data seems to use unrealistic temperatures (for the UK), like 25C. I don't think these differences would justify spending money on a different type, as they don't come cheap.

Either way, the cost of sucking up all that moisture is going to exceed the cost of doing the washing part, probably several times over.

Telegraph_Sam

My Meaco 20 L eco dehumidifier (type??) appears to show up well in the comparisons. The environmental room emperature is in the mid teens. These are currently retailing @ c. £250. Probably as good a solution as I'm going to get, but possibly not excluding some other if it was a matter of making a new outlay. Esp if compared with a new tumble drier.