Octopus Tracker

matt_drummer

Dolor said:

I used to be an auditor and auditing is based on assessing risks of errors and designing checks to ensure that any errors in the process would be identified in appropriately sized samples.

I agree with you up to a point. Octopus has the responsibility for its customers’ meters and as far as I am concerned they can do what they want when they want. A data collector (pretending to be the supplier) calling the customer for meter readings is something altogether different. There is no meter check as such  - so no added value. I am happy to access smart meter sub-menus but it isn’t my job to give the supplier readings which it already has on its system. FWiW, my wife wouldn’t have a clue what to do. Meter readings from data collectors are treated for billing purposes as industry-validated. If, for example, I was stupid enough to give them the reading from my IHD, I would end up being billed for 500 units that I have already paid for. I have given Octopus the T01 and T02 readings even though the T02 register is presently not in use. 

If Lowri Beck is being paid to obtain meter readings on behalf of Octopus, then they can send out a meter reader and do the job properly.

I was responding to this

    la531983 said:

    I read on another thread they are sending people out to read smart meters. All very odd.



Meter readers being sent out to read smart meters.

I have not considered a view on calling customers and expecting customers to read the meters.



I maintain my opinion that there is nothing odd about sending meter readers out to smart meter installations.

[Deleted User]

I maintain my opinion that there is nothing odd about sending meter readers out to smart meter installations.

Save for the fact that financial savings on meter reading is part of the smart meter business case, and SLCs only require a supplier to obtain a meter reading once every 12 months which includes readings sent electronically. If suppliers don’t trust the accuracy of the smart meters that they are installing then what are consumers to think?  Just taking a meter reading proves nothing. The situation is different when consumers are providing manual readings.

matt_drummer

[Deleted User] said:

I maintain my opinion that there is nothing odd about sending meter readers out to smart meter installations.

Save for the fact that financial savings on meter reading is part of the smart meter business case, and SLCs only require a supplier to obtain a meter reading once every 12 months which includes readings sent electronically. If suppliers don’t trust the accuracy of the smart meters that they are installing then what are consumers to think?  Just taking a meter reading proves nothing. The situation is different when consumers are providing manual readings.

I don't think I understand your point.

Spot checking anything is a good idea.

I check things from time to time, stuff goes wrong.

I dare say `meter readers' are capable of more than just meter reading.

On site checks don't seem odd to me, and like most things, if you haven't done anything wrong, there isn't really any problem that I can see.

They are welcome to come and `read' my smart meter whenever and as often as they want.

[Deleted User]

My point is that suppliers are no longer required to read smart meters or any other meter for matter. Under Licence Conditions suppliers just have to obtain a meter reading once a year. Suppliers are now required to carryout meter safety checks but they are left to decide the frequency of these checks.

 If a supplier is offering tariffs and billing based solely on 30 minute usage (as is the case with Octopus)  then a meter reading provided by a meter reader is of no value whatsoever. The meter reader has no way of extracting 30 minute usage data from the meter that I am aware of. 

A supplier asking its data collector to read meters which then decides to request meter readings from the homeowner by phone demonstrates just how flawed the whole meter audit and checking process has become. A consumer is unlikely to admit over the phone that his/her meter has been bypassed for months.

matt_drummer

Perhaps when the meter reader comes they haven't really come to read the meter?

I did say before - `meter reader'

As far as I am concerned the meter belongs to somebody else and if they want to send somebody around to look at it I don't really care.

They could have all sorts of reasons for making site visits and saying it is a meter read is probably the best way of not initiating any sort of confrontation with the customer.

[Deleted User]

matt_drummer said:

Perhaps when the meter reader comes they haven't really come to read the meter?

I did say before - `meter reader'

As far as I am concerned the meter belongs to somebody else and if they want to send somebody around to look at it I don't really care.

They could have all sorts of reasons for making site visits and saying it is a meter read is probably the best way of not initiating any sort of confrontation with the customer.

I agree 100%. If a supplier wants to send out someone to carryout an unannounced check of my meters for safety or for revenue protection purposes then that is absolutely fine. If the ‘proof’ of a visit is the recording of meter readings then so be it.

It is however somewhat disingenuous of a data collector to suggest that the supplier has asked for meter readings when there is no longer a regulatory requirement for these to be obtained from meter readers/data collectors. The fact that Lowri Beck is calling on me to provide it with meter readings to pass onto Octopus when there is 24 hour unfettered access to my meter boxes suggests that the system is flawed. More so, because if I was to provide Lowri Beck with these readings they would not be used for billing purposes as all my billing is based on 30 minute usage data. If Octopus wanted to use index/register readings for Flux billing then it would have recorded actual usage against 3 time period specific smart meter registers: Flux is a single register tariff.

matt_drummer

Dolor said:

matt_drummer said:

Perhaps when the meter reader comes they haven't really come to read the meter?

I did say before - `meter reader'

As far as I am concerned the meter belongs to somebody else and if they want to send somebody around to look at it I don't really care.

They could have all sorts of reasons for making site visits and saying it is a meter read is probably the best way of not initiating any sort of confrontation with the customer.

I agree 100%. If a supplier wants to send out someone to carryout an unannounced check of my meters for safety or for revenue protection purposes then that is absolutely fine. If the ‘proof’ of a visit is the recording of meter readings then so be it.

It is however somewhat disingenuous of a data collector to suggest that the supplier has asked for meter readings when there is no longer a regulatory requirement for these to be obtained from meter readers/data collectors. The fact that Lowri Beck is calling on me to provide it with meter readings to pass onto Octopus when there is 24 hour unfettered access to my meter boxes suggests that the system is flawed. More so, because if I was to provide Lowri Beck with these readings they would not be used for billing purposes as all my billing is based on 30 minute usage data. If Octopus wanted to use index/register readings for Flux billing then it would have recorded actual usage against 3 time period specific smart meter registers: Flux is a single register tariff.

I do not disagree with you.

I still don't understand why you keep quoting me and talking about telephone calls from Lowri Beck?


I merely quoted and commented on meter reader visits to smart meters, this below

    la531983 said:

    I read on another thread they are sending people out to read smart meters. All very odd.



Can you explain where telephone calls come into this and my comment that sending out meter readers doesn't seem odd to me?

la531983

Can you leave me out of this seemingly petty squabble please. 

[Deleted User]

la531983 said:

Can you leave me out of this seemingly petty squabble please. 

Hardly, a squabble. It is more of a discussion as to why suppliers need to send meter readers out to take readings from smart meters. One of the Government’s selling points for consumers agreeing to smart meters was ‘manual metering no longer required’. There is a clue in the word smart. The simple truth is that there is no regulatory obligation on any supplier to manually read a working smart meter. If these visits are to carryout safety and revenue protection checks then the supplier’s representative should just say so when he arrives at the door. He can come once a week as far as I am concerned. The big ‘lie’ is that the supplier has asked for meter readings when it already has them on the account.

My other concern is when I asked Lowri Beck which electricity meter reading it wanted, I was told ‘the one scrolling on the screen’. As it happens, the Kaifa meter displays two readings: one is the import total, and the other is the export total. What the supplier is actually asking for is the reading from the in use register which can only be accessed by pushing and holding the A and B buttons in a given sequence. 

I have asked Octopus for an explanation and it will be interesting to see what it has to say.

matt_drummer

[Deleted User] said:

la531983 said:

Can you leave me out of this seemingly petty squabble please. 

Hardly, a squabble. It is more of a discussion as to why suppliers need to send meter readers out to take readings from smart meters. One of the Government’s selling points for consumers agreeing to smart meters was ‘manual metering no longer required’. There is a clue in the word smart. The simple truth is that there is no regulatory obligation on any supplier to manually read a working smart meter. If these visits are to carryout safety and revenue protection checks then the supplier’s representative should just say so when he arrives at the door. He can come once a week as far as I am concerned. The big ‘lie’ is that the supplier has asked for meter readings when it already has them on the account.

My other concern is when I asked Lowri Beck which electricity meter reading it wanted, I was told ‘the one scrolling on the screen’. As it happens, the Kaifa meter displays two readings: one is the import total, and the other is the export total. What the supplier is actually asking for is the reading from the in use register which can only be accessed by pushing and holding the A and B buttons in a given sequence. 

I have asked Octopus for an explanation and it will be interesting to see what it has to say.

Me too, not a squabble.

You know more about these things than I do.

I have the utmost respect for Dolor and wouldn't question their knowledge on this subject.

I just don't want you are anybody else to think that I am saying that telephone calls asking for meter readings from a customer serve any useful purpose, I don't think that.

Where we differ is in our desire for an explanation or justification for what is being done, I just don't think we are entitled to know that.

The meters belong to the supplier and they can do what they want as far as I am concerned, it's really none of my business. If they want to explain what they are doing or answer my questions then I am interested, of course, but I really don't think they owe me anything.

I do appreciate that some people are more interested in the reasons than me though and there's nothing wrong with that.

I suspect that meter readers are met with hostile responses from time to time and that if they said they were there to make sure we weren't stealing energy it wouldn't go down well with many people. I am guessing that is why they say they have come to read the meter?

There are some meter readers and ex meter readers here that could probably give the best insight is to why they do what they do.