Electric car charging

Ectophile

Ultimately, the reason that electric cars are corrently so expensive is that there's a shortage of batteries across Europe and America.  Mechanically, electric cars are far simpler than petrol or diesel.  It's only the batteries that makes them expensive.

Since they can't get enough batteries for mass production, the manufacturers have responded by hiking up the prices, by loading up their electric models with all the bells and whistles to justify the increased price.  If you buy a petrol car, you can get a cheap entry-level model or a fully-specced expensive one.  Electric cars only come as the expensive one.

We won't see prices drop to something more reasonable until battery production can meet demand.  And we won't see volume production of electric trucks til then either, since they need vast quantities of batteries to make one truck.

JamoLew

Indeed - hence my views that now is not right for me but 4-5 years time might be.

Each to their own and their own views and circumstances 

Freecall

Mickey666 said:

.......overnight cheap rates could become a thing of the past.

I am sure that is correct.

That is why EV drivers are moving towards dynamic pricing tariffs - follow the cheap miles!

Try that in an ICE.

NBLondon

At the weekend, I walked past my nearest set of on-street charging points and there was an electric Mini plugged in.   Why am I telling you this?  It's only the second time since I discovered these 3 years ago that I've actually seen a car there.   Which for some of you might be an argument that I could go electric since this is 5 minutes walk from my house (no off-road space).    Why re they so unused?  Maybe because it's a nice-ish suburban neighbourhood where people mostly do have drives and I can see chargers installed on 8 or 10 of these.  so things are improving but there's still a mismatch of where the chargers are and places I actually drive to.

Herzlos

JamoLew said:

DrEskimo said:

JamoLew said:

i am still yet to be convinced purely from the financial side of the equation.

I do 8k miles a year

Paying ~25% more for an EV over an ICE equivalent just doesn't work

Plus the "modern" way of swapping your car every 3 years

Now drop the price by 25% and you may well hook me - but not now

Feel like a broken record, but it's not the difference in purchase price that you need to consider, it's the difference in depreciation costs. A higher cost EV will be worth more than a lower cost ICE at any point in its ownership.

My used Zoe has depreciated about £2k over the last 2yrs, whereas an equivalent used Clio has depreciated around £3-4k. 

Despite the fact it was a few grand more to buy, the cost to run it has been substantially lower. Half the depreciation costs, 1/10th the fuel costs and no VED.

Still not convinced - does a new EV only cost 1-2k more than an ICE ?

It doesn't have to, if you're looking at total cost of ownership (and ignoring the capital outlay and interest).

As an exaggerated example; the Clio could be £10k new and the Zoe £20k new. But if after a year the Clio is worth £6k and the Zoe £18k then the Zoe is the cheaper car at half the cost.

You need to look at the total cost of ownership (TCO): (purchase price + interest + fuel + maintenance) - (resale price).

[Deleted User]

Mickey666 said:

Basically, we're not that good at predicting the future ( where is my flying car or jet-pack?!).

We were supposed to have had these by the year 2000!

BOWFER

Ectophile said:

If you buy a petrol car, you can get a cheap entry-level model or a fully-specced expensive one.  Electric cars only come as the expensive one.

What....?
Most electric cars come in different trim levels, what you on about?
For example, Nissan leaf comes in Acenta starter level, which is about as basic as most people are prepared to suffer these days.
Then there's several other trim levels up to fancy Tekna spec.
Same with Zoe and loads of others.

CardinalWolsey

The longer term view is that you won't have your own personal car, unless you're willing to pay a lot of money to own and run one. What there will be is a network of electrically driven self-driving cars. You simply book your journey in advance or at the point you want to travel, and a car will arrive to transport you. This is the long-game of Uber.

Whilst we wait for that world to arrive (10-15 years), its a shame we couldn't have taken advantage of a global supply infrastructure network that allowed for the immediate refuelling of vehicles. A world where we didn't have to worry about installing chargers at home, multiple public chargers on every road etc. A world driven by hydrogen.

But then, Musk isn't a car producer, he's a battery salesman. A battery salesman with deep, deep pockets for lobbying.

BOWFER

CardinalWolsey said:

The longer term view is that you won't have your own personal car, unless you're willing to pay a lot of money to own and run one. What there will be is a network of electrically driven self-driving cars. You simply book your journey in advance or at the point you want to travel, and a car will arrive to transport you. This is the long-game of Uber.

Whilst we wait for that world to arrive (10-15 years), its a shame we couldn't have taken advantage of a global supply infrastructure network that allowed for the immediate refuelling of vehicles. A world where we didn't have to worry about installing chargers at home, multiple public chargers on every road etc. A world driven by hydrogen.

But then, Musk isn't a car producer, he's a battery salesman. A battery salesman with deep, deep pockets for lobbying.

Hydrogen was always deeply flawed for cars.
Firstly, it's expensive to produce
Secondly, it needs transported and stored.
Thirdly, the 'immediate refuelling' is a myth, the average fill time for a Hydrogen car is 12 minutes, and that is if the pump is at its working pressure - if it's not, you wait longer.
Scania are the latest to turn their back on hydrogen for their trucks, there's just no need for it any more.

Navigator123

Hydrogen is only an expensive and inefficient fuel source at the moment because nobody has put any substantial money into the process.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology was a viable source 20 years ago and all the patents where purchased by a few Crown Princes in Saudi Arabia (I wonder why) and locked up in a vault and the key thrown away.

Can someone please explain to me why we in the UK are having to switch to EV cars but no other country in Europe has set a timeline for stopping the sale of ICE cars?