Advice For Tenants

TheCatSitter

Good Morning,

Would any members here have any advice for the best place for tenants to get advice for tenancy issues? I see there is for example Which Legal, I’m just looking for any places you may of had positive experiences with, as we are having a nightmare with our agency.

Thanks In Advance x

moneysavinghero

Shelter or Citizens Advice

moneysavinghero

Or the very knowledgeable people on this forum of course

TheCatSitter

Thank you MoneySavingHero.

I will briefly outline the facts of the matter, without trying to stray too much emotion.

We moved from abroad back to the U.K. at the end of December. This was as my partners mother requires a full time carer due to her sever illness.

We found a property in close proximity to his mother, we made clear to the agency who advertised the property as long term, that this is indeed what we would require, due to caring responsibility and our children need stability with school.

The agency informed us both the owners have multiple properties and this is a business for them so it wouldn’t be an issue.

However now we find ourself in a big mess, because of our trust in the contract and the owners wishing to exercise their right to move back at the end of the 12 months.

Firstly with the contract. We had agreed on the phone that we would pay six months rent in advance, and then go to rolling monthly payments. We also have copies of the emails we sent stating the that we would only be able to offer a one time payment of six months in advance. 

However due to (which we can provide proof of) Myself being in hospital having emergency surgery for a life threatening brain tumour and catching COVID-19 in the hospital too, and then my partner catching covid from me, the contact was taken on trust from what we had prior agreed when signing it.

Admittedly we know that was our mistake, we are just trying to put it out in to context.

Secondly, we invested money in this house when we arrived, we had the manager of the agency come round to our home as we needed to show several things wrong. Such as the state of the walls, the mould and dampness around windows, the rear door panel damaged, the place was not clean. Radiator not working, electrical socket broken. Faulty thermostat.

So we informed the manager to say to the owners we will get the place painted, and replace the rear door panel and clean, replace the disgusting roller blinds etc on the basis we are staying long term and we ask nothing for it. The agency got the radiator and thermostat fixed but despite several times contacting them the electrical socket is still at fault.

We also informed the manager we had to pay the person (pocket money) who was processing our application for the property for help to push through the application. Which we provided proof off, and despite being a big agency, didn’t care much about it.

So this all came about us finding out that the landlord has no intention to extend in January when we asked the agencies bank details to set up monthly payments to them after the sixth month. To which they advised this was never agreed. We obviously advised the above from our side but there basis was we have your signatures and that is that.

We then went to the head office who got the agency to speak to the landlords about switching to monthly payments. First the agency asked verbal confirmation from them, to which they agreed. Then written confirmation again agreed too. However then a legal document that says they lose all insurance rights, they have now come back and said that they won’t agree to that (which I can totally understand from their point).

We spoke with our parents and they have agreed to give us another six months as they requested, but asked we speak to the agency about a new 12 month tenancy this time stating after the next round of six months rent in advance that we get it in writing we can go to rolling monthly payments.

Now the landlords went back to the agency and said no they cannot agree to that as they plan to retire and come back to this house at the end of our tenancy.

I know peoples circumstances can change, but it feels very disingenuous to this after three months after we made so clear our needs for long term, spending all our money moving here, and making their property better. We also do not have the money to be able to afford another move, another 6 months rent in advance and deposit. But ultimately we are feeling very upset.

So I guess after all that (sorry it dragged on but sometimes context can be important) I guess my question is, anyway of challenging being evicted after the 12 months?

Thanks In Advance x

[Deleted User]

Can't you just continue paying monthly rent at the end of your fixed term, letting the contract automatically roll over to being periodic?

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/options_when_your_fixed_term_tenancy_ends

If the agency/landlord kicks up a stink, it will take them 1 year+ to evict you through the courts.   If you're not dependent on a landlord's reference for a future rental, you can just keep paying rent and pretty much stay in the property for as long as you need.

TheCatSitter

No but the agency have stated now that the owners are planning to come back to retire at the end of the 12 months. We are going to struggle so much, we won’t have the money to physically move when all costs taken in account and unlikely to find something so close for caring needs. This is why we were so upfront about it from the beginning.

TheCatSitter

I suspect they intend to give notice at the end of the first six months. I will keep paying monthly but I can’t imagine it will take them too long to evict us unless we can challenge it?

moneysavinghero

Is this in Scotland? The rules up there are slightly different.

However now we find ourself in a big mess, because of our trust in the contract and the owners wishing to exercise their right to move back at the end of the 12 months.

If in England the owners have no right to move into the property at the end of 12 months. This is currently your home. Until the tenancy is ended it will remain your home. The only way a tenancy can be ended is if you agree it be, or a court ends it.

The Letting Agent / Landlord does not have to agree to a rolling contract. By law you will automatically go onto one at the end of the fixed term. If they want you to leave they will need to issue you with a section 21 notice. This must give you 6 months notice. Have they already issued you with this? Even once this notice period ends they would then still need to go to court to end your tenancy. In current times this could easily add another 6 months.

jemima82

It’ll take them ages to legally, physically get you out. 

You could tell them that you’re disappointed in the situation but are willing to negotiate to leave before they need to get bailiffs involved.  Like, they repay your costs for what you’ve spent on improving their property, plus deposit & first months rent to help you find a new place.

TheCatSitter

Thank you MoneySavingHero and Jemima82, I should of said this is in England.

I have written an email sent to the agency to forward and sent a letter to the landlord to their address on our contract (recorded delivery) explaining fully our situation incase they weren’t informed by the agency, but as of yet no response.

We are only three months in so as of yet they haven’t given notice but the agency have implied this will be given soon. 

Thanks again! X

grumiofoundation

Tried to answer some of the relevant points, broke up comment to (try and) make easier to read. More knowledgable people will probably be along to provide more accurate info but some queries below may help them (and you). 

There are very helpful stickies at the top of this board - would recommend having a thorough read of them. 

A lot of the queries are related to what is said in your contract. 

Key point is - under NO circumstances will you have to leave the property if you don't choose to before the landlord has a) served notice and b) gone to court to enforce said notice (assuming valid of course, if invalid they will have to start again)

Saying that, as poster above said it may be easier and less stressful for you to negotiate a solution that is acceptable to both parties (i.e. they pay you to agree to end tenancy early). Are many other suitable rentals are available?

However now we find ourself in a big mess, because of our trust in the contract and the owners wishing to exercise their right to move back at the end of the 12 months.

Firstly with the contract. We had agreed on the phone that we would pay six months rent in advance, and then go to rolling monthly payments. We also have copies of the emails we sent stating the that we would only be able to offer a one time payment of six months in advance. 

....

Admittedly we know that was our mistake, we are just trying to put it out in to context. (I am not sure what mistake you refer to?)

TheCatSitter said:

I suspect they intend to give notice at the end of the first six months. I will keep paying monthly but I can’t imagine it will take them too long to evict us unless we can challenge it?

To clarify did you sign a 6 month fixed term or a 12 month fixed term? (What does contract say?)

The owners don't have a 'right' to move back in.

(Disclaimer not an expert) They may be able to use Section 8, ground 1 but to use this I believe you should have been informed of this at the start of the tenancy. Even then they still have to sign you notice.

So this all came about us finding out that the landlord has no intention to extend in January when we asked the agencies bank details to set up monthly payments to them after the sixth month. To which they advised this was never agreed. We obviously advised the above from our side but there basis was we have your signatures and that is that.

We then went to the head office who got the agency to speak to the landlords about switching to monthly payments. First the agency asked verbal confirmation from them, to which they agreed. Then written confirmation again agreed too. However then a legal document that says they lose all insurance rights, they have now come back and said that they won’t agree to that (which I can totally understand from their point).

We spoke with our parents and they have agreed to give us another six months as they requested, but asked we speak to the agency about a new 12 month tenancy this time stating after the next round of six months rent in advance that we get it in writing we can go to rolling monthly payments.

To clarify are you currently paying rent? If the landlord won't accept payment make sure you have proof you tried to pay. How did you pay the 6 months upfront/deposit? 
Regarding what and when you are meant to pay what does the contract say?

Now the landlords went back to the agency and said no they cannot agree to that as they plan to retire and come back to this house at the end of our tenancy.

TheCatSitter said:

No but the agency have stated now that the owners are planning to come back to retire at the end of the 12 months. We are going to struggle so much, we won’t have the money to physically move when all costs taken in account and unlikely to find something so close for caring needs. This is why we were so upfront about it from the beginning.

Not your problem they want to move back in. If you have a 12 month contract they aren't moving in after 12 months unless you agree to leave. 
If you stay 1 day past the fixed term (which you are allowed to do) then a periodic tenancy is automatically created. 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/options_when_your_fixed_term_tenancy_ends

So I guess after all that (sorry it dragged on but sometimes context can be important) I guess my question is, anyway of challenging being evicted after the 12 months?

Thanks In Advance x

Assuming they serve you a Section 21 notice there are a number of reasons this  can be invalid including (but not limited to) lack of gas safety certificate, deposit not protected. 

We also informed the manager we had to pay the person (pocket money) who was processing our application for the property for help to push through the application. Which we provided proof off, and despite being a big agency, didn’t care much about it.

From what you have described this sounds like a banned fee under the tenants fees act. What exactly did you pay?
In the event you did pay a banned fee includes details on how to get this back and how to report this. 

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/letting_agent_fees_for_tenants?gclid=Cj0KCQjwl9GCBhDvARIsAFunhsmGWhcm9mfwqer28oG0tHUQypivLuQ6VeMhaKH174ZKUnCaePkEHMAaAmvrEALw_wcB