County court Judgement claim form received One parking solution Stanmer park

DTK

Hi, 
Like I guess many others I was caught out by One Parking solutions poor signage at Stanmer park, Brighton. This happened back on 26th June  2019. I was the driver, my partners car. As usual parking bays were full I parked off the road on a verge, keeping the road clear, as we have for decades. There were no signs I saw at all, no parking lines, no yellow lines, no indication at all, despite looking. I don't recall signs on arrival. If I had seen signs, or had there been indication of parking restrictions I would have done differently. Multiple cars were parked in similar ways. 

When returned to car, we had a Parking Charge Notice. We then subsequently received a request which I ignored, and some other paperwork. I realise I should have appealed at the some point, but didn't and we moved house over a year ago, I forgot about it. 
Yesterday I received a Claim form from the County Court Business centre (or my partner did) issue date the 12th march. No pre claim letter, but that probably doesn't seem to matter hugely. I have a request for 257.01 to pay, and the usual ways to deal with this via Moneyclaim. I initially started to reply in writing but thanks to your collective posts have seen online is better, and I need to rapidly get up to speed. I think I need to do an acknowledge of service shortly. 
So I can see that I have made some errors, not appealing to independent arbitration, honestly can't remember what stage it got to before we moved. Because it wasn't a penalty charge notice I ignored it. 
Now I can see that One parking solutions have a long history of poor signage, not marking bays, and generally using ambiguity to seemingly trick people into parking in the wrong areas see below. They have had problems for not following the BPA rules I think, and therefore issues with issueing the wrong type of froms - not really clear on this. 

Thanks to previous brilliant posts, @Coupon-mad among lots of others (you guys are awesome btw), I can also see that the contract with BHCC specifies signs that would be readable, but they choose not to do this - in my view to trick people.I can't post links yet appearently.

There is also an issue with the land being Non relevent land that I don't understand. 
I suspect that probably there is a way to defend this, and would appreciate your collective wisdom. Its more to stop OPS from being rewarded then anything else, they clearly are known for their behaviour. I also think a lot of people are probably in a similar boat (bulk claim from Northampton) and may appreciate advice. I can post information from the claim if that useful or appropriate. The only odd bit of the particulars is that they state state we agreed to pay, which clearly we didn't. 
Is it worth putting time into defending this in the situation? I suspect they probably have a picture of my car, with one of those tiny little stakes the the tiny signs that they put into the ground to justify their actions. 
Thanks sorry for the long post. 
D

D_P_Dance

There is also an issue with the land being Non relevent land that I don't understand. 

What do you not understand?

blackdog2220

DTK said:

Hi, 
Like I guess many others I was caught out by One Parking solutions poor signage at Stanmer park, Brighton. This happened back on 26th June  2019. I was the driver, my partners car. As usual parking bays were full I parked off the road on a verge, keeping the road clear, as we have for decades. There were no signs I saw at all, no parking lines, no yellow lines, no indication at all, despite looking. I don't recall signs on arrival. If I had seen signs, or had there been indication of parking restrictions I would have done differently. Multiple cars were parked in similar ways. 

When returned to car, we had a Parking Charge Notice. We then subsequently received a request which I ignored, and some other paperwork. I realise I should have appealed at the some point, but didn't and we moved house over a year ago, I forgot about it. 
Yesterday I received a Claim form from the County Court Business centre (or my partner did) issue date the 12th march. No pre claim letter, but that probably doesn't seem to matter hugely. I have a request for 257.01 to pay, and the usual ways to deal with this via Moneyclaim. I initially started to reply in writing but thanks to your collective posts have seen online is better, and I need to rapidly get up to speed. I think I need to do an acknowledge of service shortly. 
So I can see that I have made some errors, not appealing to independent arbitration, honestly can't remember what stage it got to before we moved. Because it wasn't a penalty charge notice I ignored it. 
Now I can see that One parking solutions have a long history of poor signage, not marking bays, and generally using ambiguity to seemingly trick people into parking in the wrong areas see below. They have had problems for not following the BPA rules I think, and therefore issues with issueing the wrong type of froms - not really clear on this. 

Thanks to previous brilliant posts, @Coupon-mad among lots of others (you guys are awesome btw), I can also see that the contract with BHCC specifies signs that would be readable, but they choose not to do this - in my view to trick people.I can't post links yet appearently.

There is also an issue with the land being Non relevent land that I don't understand. 
I suspect that probably there is a way to defend this, and would appreciate your collective wisdom. Its more to stop OPS from being rewarded then anything else, they clearly are known for their behaviour. I also think a lot of people are probably in a similar boat (bulk claim from Northampton) and may appreciate advice. I can post information from the claim if that useful or appropriate. The only odd bit of the particulars is that they state state we agreed to pay, which clearly we didn't. 
Is it worth putting time into defending this in the situation? I suspect they probably have a picture of my car, with one of those tiny little stakes the the tiny signs that they put into the ground to justify their actions. 
Thanks sorry for the long post. 
D

BHCC-owned local authority land, therefore non relivent under POFa 2012 , therefore unless you have admitted to being the driver , they can only go after the keeper ,but they will try in court  a judge may ask you if you were driving , however as this incident happened back in june 2019 , almost 2 yrs ago you could eassily reply that you could not honestly remember , they quietly addin that the land belongs to the corporation , and as such the land is classed as non relivent as far as pofa2012 goes , but yet one parking are stating that the owner is liable , and this breeches POFa2012 , as well as this, the parking co seem to be going against there trade bodies views , and the views of the supreme court , by adding and inflating the figure set by goverment at pofa 2012 and charging more than the £100 specified in law 

Ralph-y

Hi, and welcome to the forum ....

some threads to help

direct link to court section in newbies thread
.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585

and  

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs#latest

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6130456/telephone-hearings-re-parking-firm-claims-can-we-all-discuss-strategy-and-outcomes-here/p1

You should search the forum for Stanmer park and, or search google for Stanmer park mse as the forum search is not the best ....

the non relevant land bit means the POFA does not apply , normally because bye laws exist and take precedent

Ralph

Le_Kirk

DTK said:

Yesterday I received a Claim form from the County Court Business centre (or my partner did) issue date the 12th march. No pre claim letter, but that probably doesn't seem to matter hugely. I have a request for 257.01 to pay, and the usual ways to deal with this via Moneyclaim. I initially started to reply in writing but thanks to your collective posts have seen online is better, and I need to rapidly get up to speed. I think I need to do an acknowledge of service shortly. 

Who received the claim from?  If it is in the keeper's name, you as driver cannot deal with it.  The named person on the claim form submits the AoS through MCOL and will have received a log-in and password to ensure only they can do it.  You can, of course help but it must be in the keeper's name.  As you have shown the issue date, @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and guidance (although it seems you may have found the defence template and other posts) for the defence.

Umkomaas

We've had a few cork ups resulting from third parties deciding to help out!  Don't go there, it becomes one heck of a mess. 

DTK

Thanks everyone. You help is gratefully received. 

Thanks - I think the post below by Black Dog has answered this one. Its confusing trying to understand all this at once. I think I understand now - I am going to say this so that someone can correct me, when I turn out to have it wrong -

That the land is non Relevent to the POFA2012 and that this is the law on this topic - and thus the local byes take precedence. This means that the issue for OPS is that they have named the Keeper in defence. However, because POFA2012 doesn't apply its may be the driver - probably but no definitely separate people as it is 2 year ago - who is at fault. Therefore the issue for OPS to successfully pursue their claim is that they cannot take the keeper, who isn't at fault, and they can;t be sure who the driver was, who is at fault but is unknown to them. Therefore they can't pursue the claim from that point one, and the judge rules?

So if I understand this correctly now - that alone means that its defensible and therefore judge should rule that no claim can be made. 

DTK

I guess with coroLe_Kirk said:

DTK said:

Yesterday I received a Claim form from the County Court Business centre (or my partner did) issue date the 12th march. No pre claim letter, but that probably doesn't seem to matter hugely. I have a request for 257.01 to pay, and the usual ways to deal with this via Moneyclaim. I initially started to reply in writing but thanks to your collective posts have seen online is better, and I need to rapidly get up to speed. I think I need to do an acknowledge of service shortly. 

Who received the claim from?  If it is in the keeper's name, you as driver cannot deal with it.  The named person on the claim form submits the AoS through MCOL and will have received a log-in and password to ensure only they can do it.  You can, of course help but it must be in the keeper's name.  As you have shown the issue date, @KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines and guidance (although it seems you may have found the defence template and other posts) for the defence.

Thanks - good correction. Partner received the claim, I do most of the driving and am fairly sure but not 100% sure it was me who was driving. 

DTK

Umkomaas said:

We've had a few cork ups resulting from third parties deciding to help out!  Don't go there, it becomes one heck of a mess. 

Thank you - yes understood. I am here in an advisory capacity delving into this crazy world. 

DTK

Ralph-y said:

Hi, and welcome to the forum ....

some threads to help

direct link to court section in newbies thread
.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585

and  

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6108153/suggested-template-defence-to-adapt-for-all-parking-charge-cases-where-they-add-false-admin-costs#latest

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6130456/telephone-hearings-re-parking-firm-claims-can-we-all-discuss-strategy-and-outcomes-here/p1

You should search the forum for Stanmer park and, or search google for Stanmer park mse as the forum search is not the best ....

the non relevant land bit means the POFA does not apply , normally because bye laws exist and take precedent

Ralph

Thank you for the welcome, your time and the help. I shall have a look at these now. 

KeithP

DTK said:

Yesterday I received a Claim form from the County Court Business centre (or my partner did) issue date the 12th march.

With a Claim Issue Date of 12th March, you have until Wednesday 31st March to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 14th April 2021 to file your Defence.

That's almost weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Of course everywhere I have written 'you' I mean the named Defendant.