I believe I have evidence of an estate agent creating fake bids

Jeepers_Creepers

Greymug said:

which is why I think, if the OP keeps on charging, the estate agent will just say that the OP was super pushy and harassed him into showing them the records. I think OP is walking right into a trap and is willing to do so mostly based on strong suspicions.

What? L_W shoved the EA's face down on the desk and forced his fingers onto the keyboard? If the EA showed her this info, he's the one at fault.

And, yes, it's all suspicion - and highly improbable. But I'll ask again - if L_W did see the list of offers made on the property she bought and this was a repeating string of offers with her and the vendor's names, then that EA has almost certainly broken the law.

Most likely, tho', that isn't what actually happened.

Marvel1

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Greymug said:

which is why I think, if the OP keeps on charging, the estate agent will just say that the OP was super pushy and harassed him into showing them the records. I think OP is walking right into a trap and is willing to do so mostly based on strong suspicions.

What? L_W shoved the EA's face down on the desk and forced his fingers onto the keyboard? If the EA showed her this info, he's the one at fault.

This and the EA should have contacted the Police to have OP removed for harassment.

Greymug

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Greymug said:

which is why I think, if the OP keeps on charging, the estate agent will just say that the OP was super pushy and harassed him into showing them the records. I think OP is walking right into a trap and is willing to do so mostly based on strong suspicions.

What? L_W shoved the EA's face down on the desk and forced his fingers onto the keyboard? If the EA showed her this info, he's the one at fault.

We don't know, do we? We're just hearing one side of the story. We should hear what the estate agent has to say.

Your argument is in general moronic, like saying "well if the bank clerk gave the money to the thief, the clerk is the one at fault". Just a moron would think that's an appropriate argument.

Marvel1 said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Greymug said:

which is why I think, if the OP keeps on charging, the estate agent will just say that the OP was super pushy and harassed him into showing them the records. I think OP is walking right into a trap and is willing to do so mostly based on strong suspicions.

What? L_W shoved the EA's face down on the desk and forced his fingers onto the keyboard? If the EA showed her this info, he's the one at fault.

This and the EA should have contacted the Police to have OP removed for harassment.

If I was the estate agent I'd just say I didn't want to bother the Police and/or I was worried about repercussions.

If OP went into the EA's office and behaved weirdly (I don't remember the details, didn't the OP keep shouting/repeating the same stuff?), there probably were colleagues/witnesses that would back up the estate agent rather than a lunatic customer, don't you think?

rach_k

I am not an estate agent, nor am I dodgy, but if I were a dodgy estate agent who did exactly what you suspect and then I was dumb enough to show you the evidence, as soon as you tried to take it further I would let you (or whoever else may want to see) know that I use a code in my bidding book so it's not what it looks like. 

I would, perhaps, say that writing the vendor's name down as a bid indicates that I have spoken to the vendor and that the price I wrote is the minimum they will accept... but that if you go up even higher, I would speak to the vendor again and see if they wanted to place a new minimum and so on, until it looks like you and the vendor are bidding against each other in 2k increments (but of course, once you know my code, it's all perfectly fine). 

Or perhaps I would say that the vendor told me they had another bid of £2k higher from a friend but I hadn't checked their ID yet so I wrote the vendor's name, because I can't record personal details of somebody without their consent. 

Or perhaps I just forgot the name of the other person who was bidding and was embarrassed to ask them because I've known them for 3 months but I was planning to get their name later.  I was just too lazy to log into the computer, you see.

OP, you're not going to prove anything and you're not going to get anything done about it.  You can obsess over it and make yourself miserable, or try to make the best of the situation and move on.  

connors07

I thought it was fairly common knowledge Estate Agents invent other bidders. I've only had the displeasure of their work for the one house purchase; it took 8 months or so to get there from first viewing (various properties) to completion. Unfortunately OP it doesn't sound like there is much you can do; treat it as a lesson learned to never trust Estate Agents. They should be held accountable for their devious tricks. The first property I ever bid on I was bidding vs. myself. It was quite comical actually as the house had been on the market for almost 2 months with little interest. I make my bid and all of a sudden someone beat my bid 10 minutes later; I asked what had been offered (I was told they don't divulge other bids) so I offered what I felt would be an amount I was prepared to pay (for arguments sake say it was £165k). 10 minutes after that I was told there had been a bid of £167k. This went back and forth maybe 4 or 5 phone calls. I decided I didn't trust the agent and that something dodgy was going on. I pulled out of the "race". Shock horror the following day the Estate Agent gives me a call... the buyer has pulled out of purchasing the property and asked if I would be willing to honour my last bid... I never used that Estate Agent again. The same property stayed on the market for over a year and eventually went for around £15k less than my original bid. Its a shame as the seller needed a quick sale and the Estate Agent sabotaged it. I've had three dealings with Estate Agents and never witnessed a shred of integrity from them.

Jumblebumble

Lonely_willow said:

I just want to start of by saying that I bought my house 2 years ago. I believe the estate agent created a fake bidder and I ended up bidding against myself which pushed the winning bid up £32k. I will list the reasons I believed I was fake bid at the time and how I now believe I have evidence I was fake bid but do not want to tip off the agent.

1. When I viewed the house I brought a tape measure to measure to see if I sofa I had would fit. After I won the property the estate agent revealed that they knew that I had wanted the property because of this tape measure.
2. When I was viewing the property I did not really look around it much as I knew I had to have it.
3. When I was viewing the property the estate agent asked me if I had viewed any other properties and I simply replied with "no I have not viewed other properties".
4. I was a cash bidder and everyone else dropped out of the bidding, then this new other cash bidder entered the bidding. I remember asking the estate agent about them and his reply was "he isn't sure what he wants to do with the property". This single new cash bidder pushed me up £32k, I had bid in 2k increments. After I had won the agent told me about my mistake in bidding up in 2k increments and told me I should have told them I needed time to think about it before placing extra bids.
5. When discussing this new cash bidder I revealed on the phone that a previous house I had won was the result of a bidding war against one other person.

What I did not do at the time when I had won the bidding war was calculate how much percent above the asking price I had paid for the property. This was a mistake on my part. I ended up paying 22% above the asking price. A house 2 doors up which was in much better condition than mine sold 1 month after mine but only achieved 8% above asking price. This house was sold via the same estate agent. Another house which sold 3 months previous to mine on the same street only achieved 7% above asking price.

Fast forward almost 2 years and I decided to visit the agent who had sold me my property to get advice on an extension I was doing to see how much value it would add to the property. After he gave me some advice I asked him if I could see the bidding book of my property as I had wanted to see if neighbour of mine had bid on my property. To my surprise he showed me the bidding book. What surprised me was that the other cash "fake" bidder on my house was female. He said to me that she buys lots of properties in the area. What I do not understand is after finding out how much rent was generated from my property the rental yield is just over 2%. So why would a property investor even purchase my property with such poor rental yields and needing serious work done to it.

After I left the estate agent I remembered that the person who I had bought my house from was female. I went and looked at the legal documents to get her name. From my vague memory of seeing the bidding book I believe he just used the owner of the house as the fake bidder.

So I guess I should start by asking is creating fake bids fraudulent activity and is it illegal? The police told me it is a civil mater and that I should complain to the property ombudsman. I remember speaking to them previously and they informed me that they would have to inform the estate agent that there will be an investigation carried out.

Is the only way to catch this estate agent to get a copy the bidding document from them by surprise? If they then see the name of the other bidder is the same as the person who was selling the house the agent would be in trouble? My worry is I do not want the agent tipped off about this before hand as he could alter the bidding book.

Dear OP
I am very sympathetic to your Asperger's as I have a  relative who suffers from it
My advice like so many others on here is to let this go as I fear you will never prove anything
You may have an excellent case but will probably never receive a penny 
Apart form anything else the Estate Agent may well be on here or on Reddit and will easily be able to identify you and like you say as soon as they are alerted if you make this official all documentation will mysteriously disappear.

kdotdotdotdot

AdrianC said:

Literally the only difference here between a simple "The vendor's rejected your offer - do you want to increase it" and what the OP alleges is that they've apparently Seen A Book With A Name In It. A name that may or may not bear a resemblance to that of somebody who may or many not be somebody else entirely.

The OP could, at any stage, have said "Nope, I don't want to pay any more." 

Not entirely right as I see it.  There's a difference between "There's another bidder and you'll have to increase your offer if you want to buy the house" and "The vendor wants you to pay more for the house". 

The first statement means you have no chance of buying the house because someone else is willing to pay more, but the second statement means that you can tell the vendor you're not going to pay more and still have a chance at buying the house [unless the vendor is willing to sit around waiting for another purchaser to come along].

The OP offered full asking price, so it does seem odd that the vendor would then turn around and keep increasing the price after receiving the offer.    

davidmcn

kdotdotdotdot said:

AdrianC said:

Literally the only difference here between a simple "The vendor's rejected your offer - do you want to increase it" and what the OP alleges is that they've apparently Seen A Book With A Name In It. A name that may or may not bear a resemblance to that of somebody who may or many not be somebody else entirely.

The OP could, at any stage, have said "Nope, I don't want to pay any more." 

The OP offered full asking price, so it does seem odd that the vendor would then turn around and keep increasing the price after receiving the offer.   

Not odd at all, they want to get the most they can out of a keen buyer, and/or suspect that they may have pitched the asking price too low. 

AdrianC

kdotdotdotdot said:

AdrianC said:

Literally the only difference here between a simple "The vendor's rejected your offer - do you want to increase it" and what the OP alleges is that they've apparently Seen A Book With A Name In It. A name that may or may not bear a resemblance to that of somebody who may or many not be somebody else entirely.

The OP could, at any stage, have said "Nope, I don't want to pay any more." 

Not entirely right as I see it.  There's a difference between "There's another bidder and you'll have to increase your offer if you want to buy the house" and "The vendor wants you to pay more for the house". 

No, there's precisely zero functional difference to you.

Both situations are "Offer more if you want the house".

jimbog

After a morning’s trudge around a Moroccan market I was well chuffed to haggle the price of a vase down  to £10 and couldn’t wait to show my family back at the hotel my bargain purchase. However, it turned out my sister bought the exact same vase but for £5. I was gutted - I had been ripped off!
Strange, as nothing had changed