Who do I escalate this to?

jimi_man

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

The reasons for you wearing a mask are immaterial (though I understand why you've explained it); you have an exemption and that is that.

However I would caution you from stating that it is 'absolutely', illegal discrimination and that 'any discrimination is illegal' since clearly those statements are both incorrect and should be described as 'may be illegal/discrimination'. As I said earlier there are defences and business are allowed to discriminate by introducing policies like this if they can prove that the policy is 'a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim'. Examples like ensuring the health and safety of others would be a legitimate aim, which seem relevant in this instance. However this is generally a matter for the courts to decide as to whether it is justified. 

In any cases, pursuing this through a legal remedy is generally considered as a last resort, and methods such as writing to the company first should be considered first. Bear in mind that pursuing a legal action can and often is very expensive.

Thrugelmir

jimi_man said:

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

Examples like ensuring the health and safety of others would be a legitimate aim, which seem relevant in this instance. However this is generally a matter for the courts to decide as to whether it is justified. 

As a "temporary" measure at times of National Lockdown in the midst's of a pandemic could be considered an appropriate response. By the time it gets to Court.  The situation is most likely going to have moved on. 

jimi_man

Thrugelmir said:

jimi_man said:

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

Examples like ensuring the health and safety of others would be a legitimate aim, which seem relevant in this instance. However this is generally a matter for the courts to decide as to whether it is justified. 

As a "temporary" measure at times of National Lockdown in the midst's of a pandemic could be considered an appropriate response. By the time it gets to Court.  The situation is most likely going to have moved on. 

I agree, I think it's probably an acceptable justification, though if it's the only place that sells the item or something similar within a 100 mile radius then they may have been better to introduce a reasonable adjustment - such as visors (they did) or shopping at other times/not let so many people into the shop whilst that person is on the premises.

Ultimately I think there probably needs to be a slight mindset change by the people that are not wearing the masks. They are increasing the risks for everyone else apart from them, so they need to show a little bit more tolerance. The aim of disability discrimination laws are to increase the accessibility and rights for affected people which is as it should be. But it should not be at the expense of other users health/safety.  

wannabe_a_saver

JamoLew said:

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

I'm very surprised - I cant off hand think of a scenario where wearing a visor supported by either a headband and-or empty glasses frame would end up with paramedics being called
A visor isn't restricting air flow in or out and neither is it warming the inhaled air (which is where a great many people struggle)

I find visors to be a migraine trigger, and while a migraine attack doesn't actually need paramedics I have had people try to call them in the past for me due to them thinking it was a stroke or similar.  If it was your first migraine attack I can definitely see calling 999 as you'd be panicked not knowing what was happening.

If the issue is one of mental health then the paramedics could have been called due to a serious panic attack or other extreme response that meant someone was concerned for their wellbeing.

k3lvc

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

And obviously because they say that it means you're right ?

I fit into one of the struggling categories but take a pragmatic view that I'm wanting to enter someone's private property and therefore I do it on their terms. I get really !!!!!! off with those that choose to put others at risk for their own personal feelings and those stores that run scared of applying their own rules/challenging non-wearers therefore risking the health of their compliant customers.
 
I'm not buying that your visit to a garden centre was 'essential' enough to endanger the life of you and others surrounding you yet you feel enough 'in the right' to want to complain about your treatment  

Barny1979

Well said @k3lvc I cannot think of anything that needs to be bought at a Garden Centre, even if it was for work that is essential. Also if I was that vulnerable to wearing a mask, I wouldn't be putting myself at risk by shopping where others are.

jimi_man

Barny1979 said:

Well said @k3lvc I cannot think of anything that needs to be bought at a Garden Centre, even if it was for work that is essential. Also if I was that vulnerable to wearing a mask, I wouldn't be putting myself at risk by shopping where others are.

Just playing devil's advocate slightly, the OP may not actually be clinically vulnerable, but may be wearing a mask for other reasons such as a victim of sexual assault/domestic abuse etc. And they are more likely to be putting others at risk by not wearing a mask, though you may (I do) consider that is more of an issue.

ratechaser

If it really really is 'illegal' on the grounds of discrimination, I would very much like to see chapter and verse on that law. 

Costco, as mentioned upthread, take the view that it's perfectly ok to refuse access to anyone without a mask or visor. I suppose there may be a technicality there around it being a members club of sorts, but at the same time I'd be surprised if there was anything in your agreement with them as a member that could override your rights under discrimination laws.

And Costco are a big company, with lots of lawyers - doesn't make them automatically right, but suggests that this isn't just some off the wall rogue policy.

So as I said, before we get all frothed up about escalations, chapter and verse on this please?

Barny1979

jimi_man said:

Barny1979 said:

Well said @k3lvc I cannot think of anything that needs to be bought at a Garden Centre, even if it was for work that is essential. Also if I was that vulnerable to wearing a mask, I wouldn't be putting myself at risk by shopping where others are.

Just playing devil's advocate slightly, the OP may not actually be clinically vulnerable, but may be wearing a mask for other reasons such as a victim of sexual assault/domestic abuse etc. And they are more likely to be putting others at risk by not wearing a mask, though you may (I do) consider that is more of an issue.

Well yes, irresponsible to others not to wear a mask, especially the shop workers. Ultimately there is plenty of online shops to source items from if not prepared or able to wear a mask/visor.

NinjaTune

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

I think you are muddying the waters a bit - this is a public health issue.  Being black/Hindu/gay (or all 3) in a shop does not pose a potential health risk to other customers.

I'll be interested to see what Rethink recommend in terms of taking this further.  I hope there's no 'compo culture' aspect to what they advise.  I know a few people who were perfectly okay wearing a mask but once they found out they could get medical exemption they stopped wearing one. I accept there are some people who genuinely can't wear a mask but there are also others who simply don't want to and are playing the system.