Who do I escalate this to?

MattMattMattUK

SingleSue said:

I've actually ended up bum up on the floor and with a free ambulance ride when I have worn a facemask for too long and that is for a lot less than 2 hours (my O2 sats plunge each and every time - it's not unusual to be under 92% after a short while of wearing one). 

Out of curiosity and please feel entirely free to not answer, but does your breathing pattern change when you put a mask on? The reason I ask is that wearing a mask slightly increases the dead space, although not by much (1-3%), however some people subconsciously alter their breathing pattern to be very shallow, which hugely increases the dead space (up to 400%). One can change one's breathing pattern consciously so if it was the issue with shallow breathing you might be able to improve your comfort when mask wearing by following breathing exercises. 

KxMx

I know when I had a chest infection I struggled massively to breathe while wearing a mask. I was breathing as normally as the infection allowed but my goodness everything hurt.
And I'd read all the studies which said they don't affect oxygen etc and thought I'd be fine, I certainly wasn't. 

justworriedabit

JamoLew said:

I think it is a fair comment as there are exceedingly few conditions that would exempt from a face covering AND/OR a clear visor - plus the OP specifically states exemption from face coverings only.

During the course of my job I am yet to see anyone not able to tolerate either for a short period of time (under 2 hours)

**I work in a very large and busy oncology centre, so you can envisage the general condition of some patients 

OP - maybe a general enquiry to the Manager or Regional manager. It may just be that some retraining or clarification needs to be undertaken with some staff members 

Great post, informative as well.
The friend I referred to in this thread will not go into a tight/enclosed space on hot, humid days and if not feeling well. 
The many I've seen not wearing a mask are often in groups or ready for a fight when challenged.  IMO, remain polite and if they insist you leave, I for one would and take my business somewhere else. I avoid a particular supermarket as their enforcement o the rules is poor, so I have the choice not to go in there and go to another one where enforcement is good.
People often forget that wearing a mask is protecting others more than it is you and this is why everyone I know wears one and at times even in open spaces as those that jog past, cycle past or walk to close to you are protect me me and others wearing mask and vice-versa.
We have come so far, let's not mess it up now, please.

sheramber

some advice here
https://www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/covid-19-support/coronavirus-do-i-have-to-wear-a-face-covering/

jimi_man

To the OP. Don't confuse the law on wearing masks in shops (a criminal offence not to unless exempt) with the ability of the shop to refuse you entry based on a blanket ban of 'No Mask, no entry' which would be a civil matter.

Obviously shops are private premises and there is no automatic right of entry to the public. Clearly there may well be equality issues in refusing a certain section of the public and there are a number of cases that are wending their way through the courts so we may well get some more guidance on that in the future. There are difficulties involved in these cases as there are a number of factors involved. By not wearing a face covering you represent a greater risk to other customers since face coverings are designed to prevent you from spreading it rather than prevent others from catching it, therefore there is an added possible H & S risk (a valid defence to Disability Discrimination).

They also required to offer 'reasonable adjustments', and technically they did (a visor) which you refused. In any proceedings then this may well go in their favour. Other reasonable adjustments might be to get people who don't wear masks, to shop at less busy times, so as to present less of a risk to other customers.

If you want to take this further then there is a whole raft of measures ranging from a letter of complaint all the way to legal action.

From a personal point of view I favour the shopping at quieter times method of dealing with it. People not wearing masks in shops, where social distancing is often difficult, does present an increased risk to others (irrespective of the reason) and so they shouldn't expect to be able to shop in busy times. 

justworriedabit

jimi_man said:

To the OP. Don't confuse the law on wearing masks in shops (a criminal offence not to unless exempt) with the ability of the shop to refuse you entry based on a blanket ban of 'No Mask, no entry' which would be a civil matter.

Obviously shops are private premises and there is no automatic right of entry to the public. Clearly there may well be equality issues in refusing a certain section of the public and there are a number of cases that are wending their way through the courts so we may well get some more guidance on that in the future. There are difficulties involved in these cases as there are a number of factors involved. By not wearing a face covering you represent a greater risk to other customers since face coverings are designed to prevent you from spreading it rather than prevent others from catching it, therefore there is an added possible H & S risk (a valid defence to Disability Discrimination).

They also required to offer 'reasonable adjustments', and technically they did (a visor) which you refused. In any proceedings then this may well go in their favour. Other reasonable adjustments might be to get people who don't wear masks, to shop at less busy times, so as to present less of a risk to other customers.

If you want to take this further then there is a whole raft of measures ranging from a letter of complaint all the way to legal action.

From a personal point of view I favour the shopping at quieter times method of dealing with it. People not wearing masks in shops, where social distancing is often difficult, does present an increased risk to others (irrespective of the reason) and so they shouldn't expect to be able to shop in busy times. 

If I may say so, a truly nice, informative, helpful, caring and great post. Thank you for the sensible/pleasant/helpful, well blanaced read.

MrsFlahdeblah

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

SingleSue

MattMattMattUK said:

SingleSue said:

I've actually ended up bum up on the floor and with a free ambulance ride when I have worn a facemask for too long and that is for a lot less than 2 hours (my O2 sats plunge each and every time - it's not unusual to be under 92% after a short while of wearing one). 

Out of curiosity and please feel entirely free to not answer, but does your breathing pattern change when you put a mask on? The reason I ask is that wearing a mask slightly increases the dead space, although not by much (1-3%), however some people subconsciously alter their breathing pattern to be very shallow, which hugely increases the dead space (up to 400%). One can change one's breathing pattern consciously so if it was the issue with shallow breathing you might be able to improve your comfort when mask wearing by following breathing exercises. 

I think I may have done in the early days which contributed to some early collapses (there were some really scary O2 sat results even on a very short wear of a mask) but now I breath just the same with as without. I'm a huge proponent of breathing exercises, it's something I have done for many years to control some of my issues and it has been the way I've 'trained' myself to wear a mask upping the time worn from just a few minutes up to the current 15 to 20 minutes before experiencing major issues.

wannabe_a_saver

_shel said:

 Love all this i cant wear a mask. My son is 10 with asthma, autism and learning disability, attends specialist school and he can wear a mask while we walk round a store 

You must surely be aware of other children in the school who wouldn't be able to tolerate one though?  I'd have thought the parent of a child with additional needs would have a bit more empathy for others facing similar or worse challenges. 

JamoLew

MrsFlahdeblah said:

Thank you for all the replies, very interesting. I did in fact wear a mask when we were initially told to do so. Ended up in A&E. Wore visor... 15 mind later paramedics called. So for those who say they just don't understand why people say they can't - in my case it's genuine. My GP advised me not to and is happy to confirm my reason for exemption. BTW I'm not in any of the age categories of those you say refuse to wear a mask nor so I live in the North or in a council flat.
I have been in talks with Rethink who say I absolutely should persue it as it is illegal discrimination and must be highlighted. I'll post back when I know where they suggest things go from here. 
Some of you ask why? Because any discrimination is illegal. If this was also about my skin colour, religion or sexuality would you suggest not bothering too.
Rethink are saying it is an offence which needs highlighting and reporting. 

I'm very surprised - I cant off hand think of a scenario where wearing a visor supported by either a headband and-or empty glasses frame would end up with paramedics being called
A visor isn't restricting air flow in or out and neither is it warming the inhaled air (which is where a great many people struggle)

Whilst I don't doubt that there are perfectly legitimate and valid reasons - there is also a good proportion of psychological mental blocks in play and the path of least resistance for a busy GP is obvious

OP - I have already suggested what I think is your course of action - going in all guns blazing and "getting legal" won't be good for anyone and as already stated - there currently is NO legal case study/precedence (probably likely to change at some stage no doubt)