Help with cat in leasehold flat - Director with passive/aggressive behaviour

Jeepers_Creepers

When you say it's a 'house cat', do you mean it stays inside your house at all times? (Sorry if that's a stupid Q - dawg person here... :-)  )

And do you know if other leaseholders - under the same covenant - keep cats or dogs?

Luisaandhercat

deannagone said:

I dislike 'passive aggressive' labels.  They can be used quite judgementally.  The director could just be a stickler for following the rules, which without any ill intent, you haven't followed.  I hope this will be resolved.., but it might be helpful if you stopped 'girding your loins' in advance of needing to
. I'm afraid it could be a case of pot kettle black here lol.  I mean this nicely, just trying to get you on the most successful path to getting what you want.

Thanks for your comments, you made me laugh and learn a couple of new idiomatic expressions! lol

The reason I said "passive-aggressive" is because I was trying to avoid calling her a bully.

And the reason for us to believe us goes beyond the cat issue. It's comments made on the FB page by others just seeking information and the way she replies; it's a freehold neighbour telling us some issues; there's the attitude in the WhatsApp group; there's some neighbours thinking she is unreasonable. But I'd rather not get into details because it distracts from our issue we are trying to solve and -as you correctly said- whether people are right or wrong, it's a matter of perceptions (and facts) and an altogether different matter. We admitted we were in the wrong, we would like a solution to this, that's what matters. But yes, I do feel she exhibits passive-agressive and bully behaviour, though the important matter here is what to do next.

Luisaandhercat

AdrianC said:

A very common clause. It's a pity you didn't read it before getting the cat - or, ideally, before buying the flat if you intended to get a pet...

Unfortunately, that's simply a fact of life living in a leasehold flat with a lease that requires permission.
The lease says you need permission. You asked permission. Permission was not granted. Keeping the cat is in breach of your lease.
There's often something about permission not being unreasonably withheld, but it may be perfectly reasonable to refuse permission if there have previously been issues around pets in the building.
Do you have any documentary medical evidence of that "necessity"? A letter from her GP? And...?

But they don't belong to people living in your building, right...?

Of course you can ask for that. But they do not have to provide it, and you do not have to agree with it...
You cannot compel the management to grant permission to keep a pet.
You may be able to persuade them to reconsider their decision, but that doesn't mean they can't come to the same answer.
Does anybody living in your building have permission to keep a pet?

Hi, thank you for all your comments.

Yes, it is a pity we did not read the lease properly. I know it may be hard to understand for people who are from/have been living in England all their lives...but a "leasehold" does not exist in some other countries; hence we are learning the hard way everything about leaseholds now. I don't expect people to understand because I can imagine, if we had been familiar with the concept as people are here, it seems absurd not to read it properly, etc.

Our mistake, as per my initial post; and absolutely, I would have asked for permission beforehand, etc. if I had read it properly.

In terms of documentary evidence, my partner is now off sick with anxiety for 3 weeks and the GP has referred her to the Wellbeing Services. We have presented evidence of my fiancee's condition; being anxious at the beginning of the pandemic, etc.

We don't have a document saying she "needs a cat" obviously, as no need for such a document before.

You ask "and?" in terms of us considering the decision biased and unfair. Again, are we being naive thinking that if someone accuses you, that person shouldn't be the one deciding the outcome? Isn't that why a judge comes with a decision, instead of the victim in a trial?

The other dogs, etc. belong to people in our Estate; not our building. The Director in our building has a visiting dog.

No one in our building has pets.

Luisaandhercat

princeofpounds said:

Sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but a few home truths to cover first:

- You knew about the clause, you chose to break it. The situation you have found yourself in is your fault, not that of the Director. Even if she is behaving unreasonably in some respects, she didn't plant the seed of the conflict.

- Your partner's health situation is unfortunate, but let's be honest, a cat is not a medical necessity for a chronic lung condition. That's not to deny that it does help, but this isn't California, where people take therapy iguanas on planes or whatever. Overdoing it on this point doesn't help as much as you think it does.

I'm a pet owner myself, so I hope you do get to keep your cat. OK, with that said, what are the ways ahead?

- You do not need to remove the animal at this stage. What their decision does, potentially, is put you in breach of your lease. If they like, they can take you to court to seek a remedy. The next step would be a lawyer's letter, then initiation of proceedings. Those proceedings are likely to mean an order to remove the animal, and potentially considerable court costs. It is quite possible that the management company never progresses to initiating proceedings, viewing it as a waste of time for something trivial. In that case, nothing more happens. If you receive a letter, it's around that time that you probably need to make a decision on what to do, including whether to get legal advice to assess your chances of fighting a case.

- What is the exact set-up of the freehold in your block? Given that you have multiple Directors on-site, it sounds like it would be a share-of-freehold block, where each leaseholder (but possibly not all) has a share in the freehold company. 

If that is the case, then you should contact the Directors, who effectively run the management company, individually. Find out if they agree with the decision or not. If you find any are sympathetic, you should lobby them to reverse the decision. It is possible that this one Director has made a unilateral decision (the fact that she is also probably the complainant does not matter) and instructed the refusal to be sent, when in fact the Board of Directors as a whole may not support that decision.

If the Directors are supportive of the refusal, then you need to consider whether you can remove some or all of them as Directors. To do this, you would need support from a large portion of the leaseholders. A good place to start would be the other leaseholders who appear to have pets in their flats; point out to them that they are next, if this Director gets her way. With enough support, you could force an EGM and a Director election, and install some friendlier Directors. But all this depends on the specific situation regarding the ownership of the flats and the freehold. Please clarify it.

- Can this be fought in court? Potentially, but I would think it is a high-risk strategy. Freeholders are not supposed to withhold permission unreasonably, but reasons for withholding permission are allowed to be relatively trivial as long as they are genuinely valid and consistently upheld. So no-one could reasonably object to a stick insect in a small tank, for example (indeed there have been cases about that point in the European Courts!), but a dog that barks can clearly be a nuisance. A indoor cat is somewhere in between. Possibly at this point the medical grounds could be considered, if you can get a doctor to write supportive evidence. The other main ground you might have is the apparent tolerance of other, more potentially disruptive animals in the building. But you will need to provide real evidence that they are there, and, even better, if they are owned by some of the Directors or have been given permission.

But this is where you get to the point where you may want actual legal advice. 

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply and all your comments.

We do understand the situation is our fault, not the Directors; hence why we apologized and explained the reasons for this to happen. That is clear to us. (Note: we should have known about the clause; we didn't because of our own fault not reading the lease properly, it's not that we deliberately chose to break it).

We are not stating that the cat is a medical necessity; we are saying that it does wonders for my partner's mental health, having suffered from anxiety, being in the middle of a pandemic, having no family here, etc.

In response to your question "What is the exact set-up of the freehold in your block?" I am really not quite sure. I had assumed we were all leasees. How can I know about each individual flat?

One of the Directors sent us a private WhatsApp message when this started to say he has no problem with us having a cat. However, we do not know the internal dynamics/politics of the Directors and Managing company.

We really don't want to get into removing Directors (as much as this Director is highly unpopular with some people) or anything like that...we want peace and our cat, that's all.

Luisaandhercat

greatcrested said:

You bought the lease to a flat without properly reading the lease you were buying. Considering you probably paid several hundred thousand pounds for the lease, that was.... unwise.

The lease says clearly you need permission for a pet. You moved a cat in without seeking permission.

Breaching the terms of your lease is .... inadvisable.

Breaching the terms of a lease can in extreme cases lead to forfeiting the lease. Not, you'll be pleased to learn, in a case like this, but I mention it to show that lease terms are serious. They are there for a reason.

You can certainly ask for an explanation for the refusal, which might or might not be forthcoming. It could simply be the result of previous bad experiences, or complaints by other leaseholders - smell? fleas? Noise? Faeces?. (Yeah yeah! You know and I know that your cat does not smell, maiow or have fleas, and always uses  a litter tray, but other leaseholders don't know that..)

You can also of course seek legal advice, and/or take legal action. This is likely to be costly, and highly uncertain in outcome- but it is your right to try.

Thank you. Yes, unwise, inadvisable and lease terms are serious: we have learnt all that the hard way now, no worries.

It was really naive not to read the lease properly and to assume that a cat inside of our home could  not be a problem (as per my response to other posts, a cultural matter, not having had to deal with anything remotely similar before. Coming from countries where leasehold is not a thing; not understanding exactly the implications). We have learned. We really just want a positive outcome and we are finding it hard to navigate all this.

Luisaandhercat

Skiddaw1 said:

Have to say that if it were me I'd put the flat on the market and move rather than rehome my cat. Really feel for you OP and hope it works out.

Thank you very much. I really hope it works out too. It's hard at the moment...

Luisaandhercat

SaintJudy said:

I think you need to do two things here first - firstly read the actual wording of your lease, does it say you have to ask for permission which cannot reasonably be withheld? Secondly find out if anyone else has pets. If so, then this proves that permission has been granted in the past and the director's objection to your pet is purely based on the fact that you didn't follow procedure, rather than them following a policy of blanket refusals to pets in the building. If other people do have pets in the building, if say you did remove the cat from the flat and at some point in the future ask permission for a pet, would they reasonably be able to say no as you had followed the correct procedure? What's to stop you letting your cat stay with friends for a couple of months, you saying you have got rid of the cat and then bringing it back? 

Hi. Thank you for your reply.

The lease says exactly this: "Animals: a) not to keep any animal on the Property without the prior written consent of the Company or the Management Company. b) To comply with such directions as the Company or the Management Company may from time to time issue regarding the keeping of any animal on the Property and to ensure that such animal shall not cause any nuisance or disturbance or foul any Common Parts or the Amenity Area of the Woodland Area".

That's all it says, it does not mention "permision cannot reasonably be withheld".

No people have pets in the building; the Director who reported has a visiting pet.

Other people in the Estate have pets.

I can tell you now that if the decision depends on this Director, she will not be providing consent now or later.

wilfred30

Luisaandhercat said:

princeofpounds said:

Sorry that you find yourself in this situation, but a few home truths to cover first:

- You knew about the clause, you chose to break it. The situation you have found yourself in is your fault, not that of the Director. Even if she is behaving unreasonably in some respects, she didn't plant the seed of the conflict.

- Your partner's health situation is unfortunate, but let's be honest, a cat is not a medical necessity for a chronic lung condition. That's not to deny that it does help, but this isn't California, where people take therapy iguanas on planes or whatever. Overdoing it on this point doesn't help as much as you think it does.

I'm a pet owner myself, so I hope you do get to keep your cat. OK, with that said, what are the ways ahead?

- You do not need to remove the animal at this stage. What their decision does, potentially, is put you in breach of your lease. If they like, they can take you to court to seek a remedy. The next step would be a lawyer's letter, then initiation of proceedings. Those proceedings are likely to mean an order to remove the animal, and potentially considerable court costs. It is quite possible that the management company never progresses to initiating proceedings, viewing it as a waste of time for something trivial. In that case, nothing more happens. If you receive a letter, it's around that time that you probably need to make a decision on what to do, including whether to get legal advice to assess your chances of fighting a case.

- What is the exact set-up of the freehold in your block? Given that you have multiple Directors on-site, it sounds like it would be a share-of-freehold block, where each leaseholder (but possibly not all) has a share in the freehold company. 

If that is the case, then you should contact the Directors, who effectively run the management company, individually. Find out if they agree with the decision or not. If you find any are sympathetic, you should lobby them to reverse the decision. It is possible that this one Director has made a unilateral decision (the fact that she is also probably the complainant does not matter) and instructed the refusal to be sent, when in fact the Board of Directors as a whole may not support that decision.

If the Directors are supportive of the refusal, then you need to consider whether you can remove some or all of them as Directors. To do this, you would need support from a large portion of the leaseholders. A good place to start would be the other leaseholders who appear to have pets in their flats; point out to them that they are next, if this Director gets her way. With enough support, you could force an EGM and a Director election, and install some friendlier Directors. But all this depends on the specific situation regarding the ownership of the flats and the freehold. Please clarify it.

- Can this be fought in court? Potentially, but I would think it is a high-risk strategy. Freeholders are not supposed to withhold permission unreasonably, but reasons for withholding permission are allowed to be relatively trivial as long as they are genuinely valid and consistently upheld. So no-one could reasonably object to a stick insect in a small tank, for example (indeed there have been cases about that point in the European Courts!), but a dog that barks can clearly be a nuisance. A indoor cat is somewhere in between. Possibly at this point the medical grounds could be considered, if you can get a doctor to write supportive evidence. The other main ground you might have is the apparent tolerance of other, more potentially disruptive animals in the building. But you will need to provide real evidence that they are there, and, even better, if they are owned by some of the Directors or have been given permission.

But this is where you get to the point where you may want actual legal advice. 

We are not stating that the cat is a medical necessity; we are saying that it does wonders for my partner's mental health, having suffered from anxiety, being in the middle of a pandemic, having no family here, etc.

But that's exactly what you say you told the Management Company in your opening post.
Coming at this from a slightly different angle, how many Directors are there?  You need to find out whether any decision they make needs to unanimous or whether one Director can object whilst the others do not thus resulting in permission being denied.

Luisaandhercat

rik111 said:

Don't panic, just say ok. Keep the cat and deny having one. 
What exactly are they going to do about it ?

It seems pathetic if other owners have dogs.
Nothing will happen and if any nosey !!!!!! mentions a cat, tell them to stop harassing you or you will involve the Police .

Thank you. I wish it was that simple, but judging by all the comments, it seems that's not an option.

And we really just want the peace of mind of knowing it is OK to have our cat. We live in the ground floor with lots of windows, we never intended to hide the cat.

Other owners have dogs in the Estate, not this building.

Jeepers_Creepers

Doesn't sound promising, Luisa :-(

Even if the director felt inclined to be generous in this instance, they know they'll then be opening the option to everyone else.