Divorce, slowly

Siebrie

I need to put my thoughts to paper, and would appreciate some ideas on how to handle this to get the best emotional and financial outcome, including keeping the house

We're in Belgium. There's me (Dutch, 49F), husband (West-African, 45M), DDs (9 and 12), ... and husband's girlfriend (possibly same nationality, no idea about age, she lives about an hour away, just over the French border). We've been married for almost 13 years; I used to be the main breadwinner, but recently took on a less stressful job with less pay. We have also recently upped our mortgage and hired an architect for extensive renovations to our home; the planning is that all the pre-work will be done around December, and proper renovations will take all of 2022, we will have to move somewhere else for that year. I will be able to pay the higher mortgage on my own, if I also get the full child benefits. I will not be able to pay the extra rent on my income.

I would divorce in a heartbeat on just the above. However, there is a lot of money elsewhere that I need to recoup, otherwise it will just 'disappear'. We have a 5-bed house in husband's birthtown in his West-African country, which cost us about €70,000 to built. This was more than agreed on, and he still hasn't found the renters he promised would not be a problem; part of it is due to outside events, but still.... There are 2 or 3 plots of land in separate villages (worth about €3,000 each), there is an appartment building under construction in the capital, which should be a nice moneymaker once finished (investment so far around €20,000, expecting to need the same amount to finish. Construction has stopped for the moment due to an (unspecified) discussion with the builders). 1 4x4 car worth around €7,000 (this is a 'normal' expense; he buys a good car in Belgium and ships it there, uses it when he is there visiting his mum once every 3 years, then sells it for a profit).

I have already asked him to sell the car now (no travel due to covid) and make sure the money comes back to Europe, under the cover of needing the money to buy a piece of land from the neighbour's, who are selling the house due to father (who lived there on his own until he moved to a carehome) nearing the end of his life.

The other items, I am making an inventory, gathering original ownership papers, going through old bank papers to see how much we actually paid. I need to have this evidence, otherwise he will just produce paperwork that says everything was sold, re-taken by government, or destroyed. He has connections in his homecountry that, unfortunately, make this likely. So, before we divorce, I need to make sure I and dds have our share.

I went through all our pension schemes and have listed/am listing dds as benificiaries on all of them (he probably will never get round to changing them, and does want the best for his dds).

I can show that €17,000 was a gift from my parents when we first moved into this house, and €40,000 was the parting gift from my former job. Because I can prove this, this money will be mine in the divorce, and outside of dividing joint assets.

The girlfriend..... I found out about her properly about 4 months ago, although I did suspect a bit longer. There was an address with a name in his car's satnav (only 3 addresses have names to them); 1 weekend in November he supposedly went to a friend in Paris, but he arrived before I expected him to, then only called from the car or in front of a house, there were no payments listed from our joint account (the only account we have). The friend stayed with us for New Year's, and badly hid his surprise when I discussed that weekend with him.

We do have 2 credit cards, both in his name. He has sent around €10,000 to one of these credit cards in the last year, and I overheard him over the phone last night saying 'you've eaten €50 last Thursday', which happened to be the day the sent €50 to another account and claimed it was 'prepaid top-up' when I asked about it.

So, I want my brain to regulate this, rather than my emotions. I do not want to live with someone I cannot trust, does not keep his family safe (covid...), spends joint money on a hobby I do not benefit from.

Additionally, his attitude towards children is starting to harm my dds. In his culture, men are more important than women, and although the 2 of us never had any problems there (which I'm guessing is true in most relationships in that culture, as long as it's behind closed doors), he is basically ignoring dds unless he has a remark, and then he is angry straight away. He is paying more attention to other people's young sons than to his own daughters.

I also want full custody, and a travel ban outside Europe for dds, because his country still has FGM; I do not trust his Mum and other female family members. He does not really have an opinion, because 'it's a female thing'....

I have asked someone I know and trust for advice about a good lawyer/mediator; rumour (and stories from acquaintances going through separation/divorce) have it that Belgian lawyers are not interested at all in a quick and clean divorce, they love a long and messy divorce.....

elsien

You're probably aware this is a UK site so unlikely to be able to help with the legalities.
The question that does occur to me is which jurisdiction would the divorce be under? What are the laws in his home country about divorce/assets and would these be superceded by divorcing in Belgium? 

Savetowin

So sorry that you are having to go through this it sounds like an absolute nightmare. Research and prepare your paper trial. I hope that you manage to protect yourself and your children.

Pollycat

Siebrie said:

I need to put my thoughts to paper, and would appreciate some ideas on how to handle this to get the best emotional and financial outcome, including keeping the house

We're in Belgium. There's me (Dutch, 49F), husband (West-African, 45M), DDs (9 and 12), ... and husband's girlfriend (possibly same nationality, no idea about age, she lives about an hour away, just over the French border). We've been married for almost 13 years; I used to be the main breadwinner, but recently took on a less stressful job with less pay. We have also recently upped our mortgage and hired an architect for extensive renovations to our home; the planning is that all the pre-work will be done around December, and proper renovations will take all of 2022, we will have to move somewhere else for that year. I will be able to pay the higher mortgage on my own, if I also get the full child benefits. I will not be able to pay the extra rent on my income.

I would divorce in a heartbeat on just the above. However, there is a lot of money elsewhere that I need to recoup, otherwise it will just 'disappear'. We have a 5-bed house in husband's birthtown in his West-African country, which cost us about €70,000 to built. This was more than agreed on, and he still hasn't found the renters he promised would not be a problem; part of it is due to outside events, but still.... There are 2 or 3 plots of land in separate villages (worth about €3,000 each), there is an appartment building under construction in the capital, which should be a nice moneymaker once finished (investment so far around €20,000, expecting to need the same amount to finish. Construction has stopped for the moment due to an (unspecified) discussion with the builders). 1 4x4 car worth around €7,000 (this is a 'normal' expense; he buys a good car in Belgium and ships it there, uses it when he is there visiting his mum once every 3 years, then sells it for a profit).

I have already asked him to sell the car now (no travel due to covid) and make sure the money comes back to Europe, under the cover of needing the money to buy a piece of land from the neighbour's, who are selling the house due to father (who lived there on his own until he moved to a carehome) nearing the end of his life.

The other items, I am making an inventory, gathering original ownership papers, going through old bank papers to see how much we actually paid. I need to have this evidence, otherwise he will just produce paperwork that says everything was sold, re-taken by government, or destroyed. He has connections in his homecountry that, unfortunately, make this likely. So, before we divorce, I need to make sure I and dds have our share.

I went through all our pension schemes and have listed/am listing dds as benificiaries on all of them (he probably will never get round to changing them, and does want the best for his dds).

I can show that €17,000 was a gift from my parents when we first moved into this house, and €40,000 was the parting gift from my former job. Because I can prove this, this money will be mine in the divorce, and outside of dividing joint assets.

The girlfriend..... I found out about her properly about 4 months ago, although I did suspect a bit longer. There was an address with a name in his car's satnav (only 3 addresses have names to them); 1 weekend in November he supposedly went to a friend in Paris, but he arrived before I expected him to, then only called from the car or in front of a house, there were no payments listed from our joint account (the only account we have). The friend stayed with us for New Year's, and badly hid his surprise when I discussed that weekend with him.

We do have 2 credit cards, both in his name. He has sent around €10,000 to one of these credit cards in the last year, and I overheard him over the phone last night saying 'you've eaten €50 last Thursday', which happened to be the day the sent €50 to another account and claimed it was 'prepaid top-up' when I asked about it.

So, I want my brain to regulate this, rather than my emotions. I do not want to live with someone I cannot trust, does not keep his family safe (covid...), spends joint money on a hobby I do not benefit from.

Additionally, his attitude towards children is starting to harm my dds. In his culture, men are more important than women, and although the 2 of us never had any problems there (which I'm guessing is true in most relationships in that culture, as long as it's behind closed doors), he is basically ignoring dds unless he has a remark, and then he is angry straight away. He is paying more attention to other people's young sons than to his own daughters.

I also want full custody, and a travel ban outside Europe for dds, because his country still has FGM; I do not trust his Mum and other female family members. He does not really have an opinion, because 'it's a female thing'....

I have asked someone I know and trust for advice about a good lawyer/mediator; rumour (and stories from acquaintances going through separation/divorce) have it that Belgian lawyers are not interested at all in a quick and clean divorce, they love a long and messy divorce.....

A right rat's nest.

Re the bit in bold - are you 100% sure that you will be able to exclude this money (57K euro) from any divorce settlement?

I'm not sure that in a marriage of 13 years that would be the case here in the UK.

Siebrie

Yes, under Belgian law, I can. Anything I can prove was obtained by me, or came from my side of the family/friends, will be mine. That includes quite a bit of our furniture

I'm not really looking for legal advice, I just need somewhere to tell my story, get some support, straighten my thoughts, read back occasionally.

Pollycat

Siebrie said:

Yes, under Belgian law, I can. Anything I can prove was obtained by me, or came from my side of the family/friends, will be mine. That includes quite a bit of our furniture

I'm not really looking for legal advice, I just need somewhere to tell my story, get some support, straighten my thoughts, read back occasionally.

But you were asking about 'the best financial outcome' which of course depends a lot on laws of the different countries involved.

You also talk about 'full custody and a travel ban for dds'.

But if you just want to tell your story, get some support, straighten your thoughts, read back occasionally I'm sure there'll be lots of people who read your thread.

I sympathise with you, especially your concerns regarding your daughters.

elsien

Much as I hate to have to flag this up if he’s having an affair, have you considered the possibility of STIs? 

Are you going to put the house renovations on hold? That seems a lot of additional stress and financial commitment to put yourself through on top of everything else. 

Siebrie

The house needs to be renovated, the kitchen extension is leaking and it's impossible to get a builder for any of the smaller jobs the house needs, so we decided to get an architect and have all problems solved at once. I really like the house and the village; I've made friends here, dds are well-integrated, husband has self-sabotaged any friendship offers.

We're using condoms (bought by him as a 'let's try these out' item); let's say they're not really needed at the moment.

I'm a bit upset with myself, as for the first 10 years of our marriage (and before we met) I kept meticulous details of where our money came from and where it went. It was easy to do in my old job; I would just log into our bank account, and list everything in the excel sheet I kept on my work computer, a 1-minute job. Then, when that job and I parted ways, I was at home for 8 months, and got this job, and then covid happened. I just never got back to the level of organisation I had, and this slipped by me. I did wonder why we didn't seem to get ahead, why spending any money was a struggle, but now I see that he has been syphoning money off for the last year, maybe year and a half.

Savvy_Sue

Agree with all the caveats above: you are welcome to share your thoughts here, but you need to research the situation re: divorce in Belgium - if that's where you choose to do this. I don't know if where you married makes any difference? 

I know you love the house, but personally I'd look round and see what else was available in the village, especially given that you'll need to move out for the duration of the works. 

And I'd start to reconstruct accounts for the more recent period where you haven't been doing this: you may not know WHERE money has gone but if you can access statements etc you should be able to back-fill a spreadsheet with WHAT has gone out!

Savvy_Sue

BTW, just to add to this, your DDs are old enough to have an opinion about where they live, travel with their father etc and the longer this drags on, the more that opinion (if it differs from yours) will be considered.

And another thought: I can see why you want to pull as much money as possible back into Europe, but how likely is he to comply with your requests, eg to sell the car and bring the money back here? 

One final thought about delays: he wants a son. If his girlfriend has one, will that help your situation? 

If you were in the UK, I'd definitely feel that your best interests would be served by getting shot ASAP and learning to live with any reduction in capital / income that might result. 

Slinky

Siebrie I remember you from posting on the KonMari threads that seem to have gone quiet these days.

So sorry to hear about your husband's infidelity. Wishing you all the best in dealing with you and your daughters' futures.